lets be honest with ourselves

ok so I'm not gonna lie and say I'm a hardcore hippy... b/c I don't even consider myself a hippy however a lot of people would like to argue that they're hippies b/c of their use of drugs

OK so I understand hippies believe in drugs but I feel that if you are a true hippy you would know that there is more to your culture then drugs and it is drugs that almost destroyed your culture.

It's not that hippies do drugs just to do them but they have a belief in expanding their minds as well as being open minded to experience

However, this was taught before the negatives of drugs all came out

Janis and Jimmy and many others were killed by drugs

and drugs were being used not to expand the mind or be peaceful but to take control of others

Charles Manson gave out LSD to control his followers but witnesses say they didn't always see him take it himself

Now whether you do drugs or not is not the case but to say you're not a hippy if you don't do drugs... isn't that kind of ignorant

are some people just hippies to glamorize their drug use... b/c you'd think they'd look at the past to see that changes do have to be made

what about the ideals behind revolution?

I don't believe pot is too bad but a lot of the harder drugs are very dangerous and people who do them just don't want to admit it

I've had friends who have done drugs and say it's b/c they're "free spirited" yet they almost died from it

if you're spirit is free you'd stop yourself from dying

 

hmm... i think most people would agree that a person can't just call themselves something and it's suddenly true; it's only about their action. a person isn't, say, a doctor just because they say they are... a person is a doctor because they work in a hospital and do things that doctors do.

that being said, as cliche as it sounds, it really doesn't matter what someone calls themselves, because it's sort of understood that a simple name or clique could never describe a person in their entirety.

but i do agree that being a hippie, ideally, seems to be about a general care for oneself and the world as a whole. it's not very thoughtful to be doing things that would jeopardize ones own health, or to do things that could get in the way of a person being the "best human" that they could be. it would seem (from hearing other peoples experiences, and also my own) that certain drugs are more conducive to broadening oneself, to "getting back" to the human experience, drugs like LSD, mushrooms, etc. and it also seems true that other drugs, like opiates, have a tendency to suck users in and prevent them from being careful not only to themselves but to loved ones and the people around them.

i think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who, in every single one of their actions, demonstrates the best possible care for themselves and the world around them.

 

it's not so much for people who do drugs... but for those who don't understand or do not like those who do not do drugs... there are a lot of people like that on this site

 

hmm i can't say i've ever taken note of people who judge others because they don't use drugs (at least on this site(, but i know what you mean.

but i think it's still relevant that, it's going to be hard to find someone who completely follows the ideal model of a hippie or free spirit.

 

no no I totally agree... no one can be an ideal of anything really

it's just I see how drugs could be both hippie and anti hippie

 

it's not the drugs that killed them.

it's people's lack of control that killls them.

everything is beautiful in moderation.

 

but drugs are what can take away your control

 

Anything can do that, be it heroin, play doh, or food. You can give your control to anything, and that's your own damn fault.

 

I have never seen a real hippy. Thats right, never. Thats because I grew up in the 90's. Hippies were a subculture from the 60's, they dont exist anymore, those that do have mostly given up trying to be hip. Drugs dont make you a hippy, and they didnt 40 years ago either.

Hippies also didnt believe in drugs any more than anyone else, everyone believes in drugs. A big part of the 60s subculture was the psychedelic movement, which was probably the only important thing they accomplished. since its widely recognized that psychedelics dont kill people, I guess you mean hard drugs, like heroin, alcohol, quaaludes, and cocaine. Which, in my mind arent associated with hippies.

Honestly, anyone parading their hipness as a front for getting high is an asshole. I get high because I like it, and I do what i want, I dont need to be a free spirit. I like this line though, "if you're spirit is free you'd stop yourself from dying." What do you mean? If I could stop myself from dying, Id do a lot more drugs than I do now!

 

I mean you wouldn't intentionally harm yourself genious

and you choose to give your control to play doh

drugs take control from you

you can play with play doh and still make clear decisions it doesn't affect your mind, vision, heart rate, blood pressure etc in a dramatic way

 

There are lots of ravers, hippies, etc. that don't use drugs, and also lots that use way too many of all sorts of the hardest kinds. You can't control your friends' habits. This is a fact. Ignore the bad stuff and offer subtle hints, but don't expect that it will help. It is very rare to find someone who isn't kind to someone who doesn't use drugs because of that choice.

These same people often spend a lot of time together talking about music and art, and nobody cares about anybody's drug habits. The bond transcends drugs, though drugs can indeed make one transcend bonds. Just be nice to people, and move on if they laugh at you or steal from you.

Just like in the 60's, today, the drugs are less important than the art and activism.

I've been in crowds of people that were all judgemental about me because I was eating meat and wearing leather shoes, and though their anger was misguided in my opinion, I was chill enough not to judge them and move on to happier places. Happier places are everywhere, in every venue.

 

I see alot of kids these days that dress in hippie styles, repeat hippie phrases and concepts, but they don't quite understand exactly why the hippies had to exist or what the hippies really were.

You know hippies were not a counterculture. Hippies were rather not-culture, hippies were what you got when you left culture. It's not like they said "hey there is that culture there, lets create this over here as a counter". No, the hippies is what you naturally got when you decondition from culture.

Imagine culture being represented by a small red square in the middle of infinite white space. Hippie would not be another square, simply of a different color, in that same white space. Rather, hippie would be all the white space, hippie would be anything that wasn't that original red square of culture. Hippie is what you get when you leave the one defined square of culture. The hippies were not a counter culture, it was not culture vs counter culture, rather it was culture vs all of existence.

Now the thing about drugs is. You can't really decondition yourself from culture without drugs. The kids who are dressing like hippies and doing hippie-ish things. They are trying construct a hippie-esque feel to them. But the hippies were not a construct, the hippies were a product of deconstruction. The hippies were a product of drugs, they deconstructed themselves with drugs and this new vibe automatically came to be. This is different than your modern young hippie wannabe who is trying to construct the vibe, the hippie wannabe kids today are not deconstructing themselves allowing whats underneath to naturally be, they are trying to construct some concept they hold in their mind. Which is exactly why I say that, yes I think to really understand the hippie, you have to visit psychedellics. Because theres no other way to deconstruct oneself.

You know many people who are hippie styled these days who have not taken LSD or had any serious psychedelic in a while, when they do take LSD, I believe they'll be deconditioned from being a typical hippie. In our current moment, 2008, when you completely obliterate your ego, deconstruct yourself, you do not get deconstructed into a 1970's hippie, that doesn't happen. The deconstructed culture right now is something a bit different than the 1970's hippie.

Hippie to me signifies someone who is right on the edge of the psychic realm, someone who is exploring uncharted psychological territory. And if your styled like a 1970's hippie, repeating 1970's hippie stuff, your not on that edge, your resting back in a firmly established culture. Thats why I say so many of the up and coming kids don't understand the hippie thing, they don't know the edge, they aren't trekking uncharted psychological territory, there simply trudging around in what the old hippies already laid down.


and about this " I've had friends who have done drugs and say it's b/c they're "free spirited" yet they almost died from it"

taking drugs that nearly kill you is nothing to do with being a hippie. Charting the edge of the psychic realm does not mean you just take any substance for a thrill, rather it means you very consciously and very intelligently utilize specific substances for specific purposes. Taking a drug and nearly killing yourself is not 'being a hippie', it's being stupid. You know the psychedelic drugs are incredibly safe from a pharmacological standpoint LSD, marijuana, cactus and mushrooms are probably the safest drugs you can come across. A whole thing about the current edge culture is that everyone is trying to be much more intelligent about their substance use. You know don't consume alcohol, don't do cocaine, don't do amphetamine, don't get hooked on suspicious chemicals or whatever. Stay with the shamanic medicines and plants that have proved themselves effective for thousands of years and offer you true and genuine aid in your life.


And it's not that I judge people who don't do drugs. It's that I find the people who have had a truly enlightening experience with psychedellics, I find those people have a much clearer understanding of our current situation on earth.

and furthermore, don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm gonna say to some kid 'your not a real hippie'. Thats completely stupid, like hippie is some special club? No. I will however think that maybe some people are just doing the hippie thing because they like the clothes and the food, but they don't quite understand what it was that the hippie movement was trying to do. There was alot of complexity to it and alot of the core of it isn't carried by hippie-styled people.

 

it is not about your control

it is about itscontrol

 

thanks for your input last couple of posters

 

no, you give your control away willingly. Play doh can have the same effect as drugs, it's just not as likely. It's how addiction works. You could potentially be addicted to anything. Heroin is a more common addiction than play doh, but is can still happen. But let's not get stuck on minor details. It's not the drugs that kill you. Your choices and your addiction kills you. It's not the drugs fault that you're addicted, it was your own dumbass decision in the first place.

 

and be it that experience with drugs, play doh, shopping, cake, drinking, relationships can set you free. Even if it kills you, it doesn't mean that you weren't free when you died.

 

so even though you are completely dependent on a substance... you were free???

 

I don't get the play-doh analogy. Surely some habits/substances are less innocuous than others, right?

 

this girl is trying to argue that play doh is just as addictive as drugs despite the fact that play doh is not consumed and does not have direct access to the brain... apparently people choose to be addicted to things... yep they pick up drugs and say I am going to take you and become addicted increasing the chance that I will hurt myself and others around both physically and mentally as well as put myself at risk for crime and poverty then after spending all my money on drugs pay thousands of dollars on hospital bills and therapy

anyone feel free to explain to me why I do not understand what this chick is talking about?

 

There are different degrees of addiction though. You can be addicted to something and not be abusive about it, you can be addicted and not have it be detrimental in anyway. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with addiction as long as what you become addicted to is something good, you know put alot of concious thought into what plants you decide to form a relationship with.

For me personally, my big three plants that I will stay close to all my life are ginseng, marijuana and mushrooms. Each one offers me an incredible aid to my current wants in life. Ginseng, simply the best stimulant you can get IMO. Then marijuana is a great creative aid, don't need pain medication with it, don't need sleep aids, keeps me generally content and out of anxiety. Then mushrooms when I really need that slap in the face again, communion with gaia, new thoughts and perspectives.

Everyone becomes addicted to something. I do not know one person that does not feel the need to regularly consume some chemical of a psychoactive nature, whether it be just caffeine, alcohol, or nicotine. If your addiction is aiding you, if your relationship with that plant is aiding you, if it's helping grow into yourself, theres nothing wrong with it. The only time problems with addiction arise is when people associate with substances that are not so good.

I think the more ideal term to criticize is drug abuse. Substance abuse and being addicted to a substance are completely different. You can be a regular user of a substance and have it be producing a positive effect on your life.


as for comparing play-doh to drugs. Well. I've seen men ruined from relationships just as bad as I've seen men ruined from drugs. I've seen men ruined from incredible stress in jobs just as bad as I've seen from drugs. I don't know if play-doh is a good comparison. But yes certainly there can be non-drug addictions just as detrimental as drug addictions. Or rather non-drug abuse... I think the bottom line here is, just don't abuse yourself or others. You can abuse yourself with anything, substance or not.