Ponderings on life and modern economics.

I am wondering what the administration or the next administration really wants the average working American to do. After 09/11 we were told to shop, then with this economic crisis we are told we the workers caused this because we spent outside our means. Now the bailout, and all the money they are throwing at the market isn't working because the workers have cut back on consumption and consumption is the greatest part of GDP, are we supposed to start spending and consuming again?

I think the market is a mess, it's based on debt swaps and manipulation. People finally woke up and saw the emperor wears no clothes, but we'll throw money at it hoping it will buy a wardrobe. One of the good things I see coming out of this is that the average man will learn to save and live within and somewhat below his means. And I think as a whole we'll be better for it. We'll all slow down a little and appreciate the things that really matter: a beautiful day, the people we love...the little things that really can't be free traded. I think we now know that oil was way overpriced.

I think it's time this country got back to producing tangible goods and real services, and not just profitting because we made up a game and learned to cheat the rules. Everyone has grown tired of the game. I think the Chinese have learned early on that perhaps the American model is not the best in the world to pin your hopes on.

 

Yeah. Its funny because the bailout is a product of the tax payers, paid to the bankers. YET, the taxpayers will still be raped if they fall behind on there mortgage payments.

All america needs is a gold backed currency, which is out of the question. Lincoln and JFK were both shot for trying to impliment a non-fiat currency.

 

I'm hoping that people jump onto the green revolution bandwagon taking place.

I want to see a future of Americans that is sustainable so that their economy doesn't have the same kind of problem where it must rely on consumption in order to ensure its "wealth".

 

But that can only be true if this nation actually produces something. What do we produce today except debt and the financial instruments that profit from debt?

 

Well on a positive note I think people are going to be a lot smarter with their earnings and borrowing and all the talk about green living a sustainable living seems to be setting in.

I think we are in for some positive changes.

I’m hoping the pharmaceutical companies will slow down and stop giving all the kids Ritalin and prison industry will slow down and stop incarcerating people for victimless crimes.

 

We used to produce some nice stuff..In the 50s-60s

we need that again.

 

Well, Living 'green' tends to cost a bit more then not, generally in recessions and depressions people work on putting food on the table, not saving the enviornment and eating well. Spam sales are at an all time high.

Envoirnmentalist should be happy though because many hunters and fishers wont be going out this year because prices are to low. And, the baltic dry index is at an all time low and ship owners arent renting their ships out to deliver goods across the ocean. This poses a risk of a major food shortage, but activists dont have to chase big cargo ships in little rafts right now.

 

Commercial “green” is fucked I know a lot of people that make a living in that industry and it is diving hard.

But real green living is coming on strong everyone around here is making gardens for next year and selling cars and getting bicycles and mopeds.

I even got a garden for next year I don’t even like agriculture.

 

many hunters and fisherman wont be going out?? where do you live?

hunters around here are living in the woods tryin to fill their freezers.. not that they dont in good times but still.. to a true hunter the price of goods in the stores mean nothing...

lol,thats a bit of a understatement dont you think?

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/10/baltic-dry-shipping-collapses.html

 

yea i meant professional hunters, whome hunt for money.

and yea, understatement indeed.

Zigher: They better make some gardens because farmers cant get credit to plant this year and are leaving feilds unseeded.

The unfortunate thing is, 99% of people dont have the means to have a garden or hunt, and are royally fucked when consuming is no longer possible.

 

We cant expect to build our economy on corporate welfare. Todays Wall Street Journal had an editorial about the farm subsidies given to rich farmers, and more critique on corporate welfare to Auto Companies

Why is a Capitalist institution like The Wall Street Journal criticizing handouts to corporations?

It makes refresing reading to get past a one-demensional cartoon portrayl of the isssues. Concepts like corporations should stand on thier own two feet, that goverment should not pick winners and losers.

 

exactly, so one can only question whether or not there is ulterior motive behind it.

I can see a day not to far off where there is 1 globalized bank and controlled by a handfull of men, and the only store standing is wal-marts. And people are paid for their labour with creditcard like cards to shop and what not.

scary.

 

First we need to get rid of the proxy like relationship that exists between politicians and corporations. In a generally capitalistic economy monopolies (not just on business, politics as well) are nearly inevitable. This is due to the entirely non existent regulation, or biased regulation that occurs. I say "generally capitalistic," because the government still enacts regulations, just that they are usually aimed at benefiting larger corporations, which is essentially even worse than a completely free market capitalism (still usually ends up benefiting the larger corporations)

Interesting times are ahead in deed....both bad and good can be assumed to come as a result.

 

Many people I know grew vegetable gardens this year. And they had a little fun doing it. And they plan to grow gardens next year as well. With the soaring prices for tomatos and lettuce, etc they couldn't afford to buy those things at the market and pay 4.00 a gallon for gas too. Many at the same time cut back on their trips to town. They saved not only on gas, but they didn't shop as much either.

Shopping in the last twenty years became a hobby for a lot of bored people. I see a trend of buying based on need not want. And I think that's a good trend for all of us. Of course if our GDP is largely based on our consumerism, then cutting back is not going to boost the economy. But that's Wall Street's problem, they don't worry about the working man...I guess the working man will have to look out for himself.

 

Gardener

The problem is that there are a lot of people have fallen for failed neo-liberal financial system you describe and would wish to return to it as soon as (they’re reflected here by such people as Motion and Hipstatic).

The problem is that many such people are in positions of power and influence and have the means to push that agenda.

The wealth backed think tanks and lobbyists that pushed the neo-liberal message have not closed up shop.

**

One strand of the neo-liberal con was that ‘services’ would replace manufacturing that for every job lost in manufacturing one would be created in the services section.

Frankly as I’ve said it always seemed like a con, but to many right wingers (like Thatcher in the UK) it was a great idea to push because it helped crippled the rights political enemy which was organised labour (unions).

**

In a Keynesian system a government shouldn’t have been in such debt before a bust, but since we only seem to have a Keynesian way to deal with a crash (the neo-liberal didn’t have one) then the government is borrowing and at some point that presumably needs to be paid back. The thing is, the Keynesian approach calls for the money to be paid back through progressive taxation in the boom period. The only thing is that will not suit the people that finance the think tanks and lobbyists mentioned above.

I think what we’ll get is more anti-government propaganda and calls of ‘socialism’ aimed at getting people to call for drastic government cuts to pay for the borrowing (instead of increased taxation aimed at getting the corporations and the wealthy to pay their share. While continuing to move their operations (and money) overseas.

 

I think a lot of working American's will wake up to what our financial system has actually been based on for the last two decades. And I think they will push for a change in it. Certainly there will be opposition to change from those that have benefited the most from the past 2 decades.

This is an interesting article explaining what happenned:

http://www.portfolio.com/news-marke...folio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom

 

heres a good article on someones take on the future economy in america. its pretty much in line with what zihger has been saying he believes is the future..

http://www.inteldaily.com/news/173/ARTICLE/8827/2008-11-24.html

kinda a bleak outlook for those who have wasted 4 years of their lives and thousands of dollars getting college educated in hopes of landing a cushy corporate america type job but it seems it will be our new reality soon enough..

 

Kind of the direction my musings have been taking lately.

I do see some problems with some of it. Locally where I am it used to be agriculture and timber were our main industries. Those things were closed in the case of timber and the equipment sold off to Japan, and in the case of agriculture our farms were sold and consolidated in to a few huge syndicated farms owned by foreign interests. Most of the diversity we once had with ag use, was erased by these interests in favor of one or two crops which were deemed to be the most profitable.

In retail our small businesses were run out by a Walmart every 25 miles. It seems only large franchises have a foothold anymore. The only small businesses left are antique shops and beauty parlors, and those seem to be closing on a regular basis.

I agree train transport seems the wisest way of transporting goods. In the last five years I've seen a huge increase in truck traffic on I5, yet the trains I see go through are on average 1/3 empty cars.

As to hydro-powered electrical plants, we had them here in California but with deregulation and the Enron rape, PG&E closed their pits and/or sold them off to private interests. So that would have to be rebuilt.

 

I don't think a college education is ever a waste.

 

in the context i was referring to it will be perceived to be for many..