Zendik

I don't care what they do at Zendik, and I have certainly gotten on with my life long ago. My only motivation is to warn people that Zendik misrepresents itself and not to go there. From what I can tell, Zendik is devolving because their best people left.

 

exactly, anyone with any real vision is long gone.............

 

The point is Rev that a lie cannot be sustained and your lie, Zendik Farms lie is your Cosmic Order. Not only does Arol and the other "Elites" get their own living space they also get their own special food. As far as unprotected sex goes they do not believe in AIDS as they say "they're not into it", so they won't get it even through unprotected sex with someone with HIV. I guess they have been lucky so far but if one does show up with HIV the entire Farm will most likely go down.
Anyone notice that Rev looks somewhat like a young Chen? They both kind of look like Nez (Kidnez)... Notice that Queen Bitch Arol with all her Compassion doesn't have the time to post here? You see she's probally not into it as we are not5 good enough for her time.
No, this just isn't 3-4 people that have a problem with Zendik Farm. Of the thousands of people that were there I'm sure most have a big problem with the place and with time I'm sure this thread will be well over hundreds of pages.
The Farm hasn't changed as I even tried to patch things up with them thinking they have evolved oput of their lies but no way, Chey made that very clear to me. Instead of taking all of this in and learning from it Rev just tries to justify their position, typical. Their own phylosophy tells then otherwise but they will NOT take any feedback from anyone else no matter how TRUE it is because Arol is their GOD and if she says it's all bullshit then that it is.
Bottom line is the Farm needs to be exposed to the people and to the authorities, they shouldn't have their 501-C3 and they shouldn't have this ability to USE people who want a better life and who are attracted by their lies of a better life.

 

i think revel did good and as best he could................go ahead and visit zendik anyone, and see for yourself if u dig it, period

 

but let's also note that revel's standing is a whole lot more different than everybody else's there.........if anyone's been there, everybody works while revel goes to and fro by himself doing his art or whatever else.......maybe he earned that and really does love arol as his partner........either way it is a different world to other zendiks, who might be incredible artists but must first find approval through the zendik funnel of bullshit.........and anyone with a strong sense of self and reality knows it is bullshit and hardly mirroring the supposed ideals...................:sunglasse

 

they say they r warriors, but trust me, i was there, i saw not one, except for myself .......hence my exit to create a life and movement of my own and not settle for some poor dead beatnik's legacy.........be like wulf, be like arol.........fuck that shit...........go your own way and trust the benign nature of your experience and trust it will work in your favor...........

 

Ohhhhhh.....
I see. So Rev is Arols BOY. This all makes sense to me now. You see if you are fucking one of the "Elites" then you have special privledges. I could have had that too but I can't sell out my dick for any amount of power at the Farm.
Rev, man you got issues. Arol could be your grandmother for Gods sake. What is wrong with you? Does it mean that much to you, you know the Power? How long does Arol have? You know she isn't 40 anymore but I guess it's your own greed and lust for power that holds you to your "commitment". Looks like you have a lot to gain here, dude.
Me, I think you are sick if indeed you are Arols "lover". Arol. act your age for fucks sake!

 

Perhaps the Zendiks ARE too busy to answer questions.. after all, they certainly do put you to work at Zendik Farm.

When I was at Zendik Farm, the workday started at seven a.m. and ended around eight or nine in the evening. This was the amount of time, every day, that every Zendik was required to devote to group activities (meetings, chores, work projects, mandatory communal meals, guided meditation, lectures, philosophy classes and associated study, etcetera). Much like jobs here on the outside, any loafing "on the clock" was punishable. I was humiliated in front of the group many times because of my lack of enthusiasm for the heavy manual labor I was expected to perform every day.

Imagine LIVING at work. Sleeping on a bunk in the break room with six other employees who will ALL snitch on you if you say anything bad about the boss. The pressure is never off.

And you don't get paid and aren't allowed to have money or property of your own, so quitting the job means certain destitution.

At night you might watch a (leadership approved) movie with your co-workers or go for a walk or play a game of capture-the-flag with your co-worker/son and the other young employees, but you can't let your guard down-- you're still on the clock. All time is company time on Zendik Farm.

 

Now I realize the game.
Here's the deal. It's all about sex. If they find you unattractive you are destined to be a simple worker kind of like say Jyre who has no artistic or sexual ability but has no where else to go and enjoys his position of being just a worker, whatever. When they told me about their feelsing about AIDS I made my decision that I wasn't having sex with anyone there and I guess they thought I was fucked up but I stopped thinking with my dick a long time ago. It's all so clear to me now. I was getting hit up for "Dates" all the time and during these dates I didn't do the dirty so you know I was "fucked up". To funny!
Lore, she is a sexual predator plain and simple. Her "art" is truley disturbing to say the least and when I rejected her, well, that was the beginning of the end so to say. Talk about demented!
So here it is in a nutshell. If you think you are attractive and you always have sex on your mind and don't mind screwing senior citizens or risking your life with the possibility of AIDS then Zendik Farm is your place. If you have some kind of values and have a problem with selling out your genitals for power then Zendik Farm is not for you.

 

In order for one group of people to control another, they have to use manipulative mind games. It takes far less effort to control the mind than to control the body.

In order to control the mind, cult leaders have to squash critical thinking. This means members are encouraged NOT to think for themselves, but to tow the party line. Some pretty convoluted mental gymnastics are sometimes required in order to remain a member of the cult. When the cost of leaving is too high, they often try to continue the mental gymnastics, no matter how difficult and distorting to the psyche.

One of the mental gymnastics is to protect the cult and it's leader from critics at all costs. This is partly out of loyalty to the cult leader, and partly self-preservation, because if the critics were found to be right, the member's whole worldview might unravel, which is too dangerous or scary to allow.

When problems are discovered in an environment where problems aren't "supposed to" exist, one has to repress recognition of the problem, or invent a way that the data must be false, or at least to discount it's importance, in order to continue to believe that the cult is a blessed place worthy of his loyalty, since he has built his whole life around it.

Although this is self-deceptive, the cult member is not aware of the self-deception; and may fully believe he has been honest with himself and others. The recent field of evolutionary psychology has discovered that the human species has a remarkable capacity for self-deception, which served the purpose of keeping groups together for survival. In the case of cults, this capacity for self-deception to preserve the group is exploited with idealogical justifications.

NOTE THAT THE CULT MEMBER REPEATING FALSEHOODS IS NOT AWARE THAT HE IS DOING SO. IT IS NOT INTENTIONAL. Unintentional falsehoods are mistakes, not lies.

There are finite set of control tactics that work. The same tactics are used by all cults. These tactics are usually discovered through trial and error by those who desire to control. To learn more about the tactics, please see
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm

Control may seem evil, but these people are generally not intentionally malicious, rather they are unaware of the damage done through manipulative mind games, and are trying to help people "find enlightenment" or stay on the "straight and narrow". This is how the best of intentions lead to a dark path.

Red Lentil wrote:
I was humiliated in front of the group many times

This is an example of group dynamics, where the leader controls a member by turning the entire group against the member using social pressure. This usually makes the dissenting member give in to leader expectations, and the painful memory discourages the member from dissenting again later.

Notice how Revel needs to discount the validity or importance of the complaints. He does this by:

1) Denial (record that needs to be glossed over, complaints are total bullshit)
2) Dismissed as outdated (not static, things change, been fixed)
3) Dismissed as unimportant (been hurt, unfortunate really)
4) Explained away (we're into something else, 2/3 can't get on with their lives)

When compared against a background of how cults work, perhaps now you can understand why Revel responds this way.

He understandably is also feeling resigned (zealous disdain, no matter the explanation or truth, won't try) because he thinks he's been honest and loyal and reasonable--these are good qualities people are encouraged to cultivate--and it hasn't produced the result he expected, not to mention that he's faced a lot of hostility for his beliefs, which may press the martyr button.

Intentional malice is nowhere to be found, and therefore when cult critics imagine there is intentional malice, it is based on a misunderstanding of what is happening, and this is why outrage against malice and expectation of "justice" doesn't work either.

It is good and right to warn people away from dangerous situations by forearming them with knowledge about what to look out for. Some of us take this up as a cause because it helps us in our own recovery process. But to expect justice or government intervention or cancellation of licenses is generally a fantasy (one that feels good though!) unless it can be clearly demonstrated that laws have been broken. Even then, as we all know, law enforcement agencies only enforce SOME laws.

So ultimately, the answer is

1) Advance education for our loved ones to protect them when not yet involved (this is what we survivors can do for others),

2) Advance education for ourselves in order to know how to reach out gently and effectively to those already involved (I recommend the book Releasing the Bonds by Steven Hassan), and

3) After the fact--getting the support we need for our own recovery process. Live support groups are great if available. Be sure to select a counsellor with cult recovery experience to avoid false diagnoses.

I hope this helps. It helps me to put to use knowledge I earned the hard way for the benefit of others.

Love and blessings,
Owl Watching Bear

 

Revel what is the farms thinking on homosexuality?

 

Owl: I like your attitude, you must be a great counselor, but I do take issue with one of your notions, that of responsibility. I believe, that as adults, no matter what BS we are subjected to that we have personal responsibility for our actions whether we are part of a group or not, although I do recognize that our perceptions can become distorted, especially if we're in a cult.

So the problem is the whole concept of people allowing themselves to be scared and dominated by "leaders," and not just Zendik. What disturbs me is that Zendik actively markets to young people who are particularly vulnerable to the mind-control tactics that Owl describes. When I was there, I overheard a leader saying how excited he was because a 16 year old boy had just arrived, "he's a special prospect, guide him carefully," he said, because the kid was young & impressionable and might become a permanent member (he didn't word it exactly that way but it was obvious that's what he meant). When the cigarette companies market to kids they got into big trouble, why should a cult get away with it?

 

It's interesting how this thread has evolved over the months. The first few comments were mostly positive. Then a few people said it was a cool place, though not for everybody. Next comments are that it has a rigid hierarchy and the people can be cold towards others. We're now at the point where the Zendiks are a dangerous cult that practices mind control, regulates the sexual behaviour of members, destroys lives, and eat puppies.

Okay, I just made up that last thing.

As I said, before coming to this post I had never heard anything bad about the Zendiks (I've subsequently found one or two other sites which portray the Zendiks in a negative light). The stories told on this thread may very well be true and the Zendiks are a dangerous group. It is equally possible that these stories might be falsehoods told by individuals with chips on their shoulders or who have something to gain. How could one really be certain?

Regarding the poster from the Zendiks, Rev, I have to put myself in his situation when he first came here. First, he posted a response in a thread that was already inclined to be hostile to his response due to the atmosphere that had been created over the past several pages (rightly or wrongly won't make a judgement). Second, he was in a lose/lose situation, in that any answer which he could give would not be acceptable to many of the users here; either he's "not addressing the question" or he's simply lying because his answers don't accord with what has been posted. Finally, Rev is one individual who is/was being attacked (perhaps not the best choice of words, but I'll go with it for now) by several people at the same time, roughly speaking. Personally, if I were in a similar position, I would be a bit defensive as well. I give him credit for showing up and responding to some of the charges as he did; many of the users were commenting on how the Zendiks had failed to show up to defend themselves, implying that they had something to hide.

As I've said, I don't know what the real story is, so I'll remain skeptical until I can verify the evidence myself somehow. I think that's a reasonable way to approach the issue, at least for myself.

 

Rev got some feedback and besides that he knows the truth. According to their own phylosophy he should be taking this to heart. He could have told the truth and accepted the feedback.
I went to the farm when I was in my 30s and they told me right out of the gate that older people usually don't do well at the Farm so I guess that fits right in with what GH just said.
Maybe it's not Rev that is evil here but the leadership is. If someone knew that Jim Jones was a lunitic should they have just done nothing? These people are dragging a dead body around with them now what the fuck is that all about? They recruit young people to mind games and hard labor through lies. What's next? What happens when Arol gets loony in her old age or some kid is abused to the point he snaps and comes back with an assualt weapon, one of the kids already tried to burn down a building with people in it. These people, or should I say the leadership is a danger to society and a danger to themselves is it not the duty of people who know this first hand to say something? Who's to say what they are capible of if they are allowed to continue their sick games?

 

I don't think Rev will come out and tell you that they are not into homosexuality. There was a gay dude living there when I was there but he was one of the "elites" for some reason although they all talked a great deal of crap behind his back but that was the norm with everyone.

 

So, someone from another forum pointed me to this thread, and I have to say, I find it somewhat disturbing.

I got interested in Zendik around December 2001, checked out the website, and started posting on the forum that used to exist there. I really liked interacting with the personalities on that forum, both Zendiks and people drawn there; they challenged me. Then the forum went down. I emailed the farm and asked what was up, and their response was that they were simply tired of constantly defending themselves from new people who came and posted simply to attack them. And there really were some assholes out there who would put Zendik down just to make themselves feel big, and the Zendiks do have a lot of other things to do.

It wasn't until February of '03 that I visited the farm in their last location in Mill Springs, NC. I was on my way back from the first round of trials of those who participated in nonviolent civil disobedience at the School of the Americas/WHISC, and stopped in for ten days. At the end of the ten days I felt it time to leave, to get home to my family. I was neither kicked out, nor compelled to stay. I felt like I'd made a real connection with some of the people there, but I definitely needed time to sort out my thoughts and feelings. So here's my two cents, after some real time to think:

One of the main things that is confused about the Zendik philisophy is that they will portray themselves as the only solution to our society's pathological mindset. This is not the case. They simply do what they do on the farm, and have great working relationships with people who choose not to live on the farm, for whatever reason. They believe that theirs is the best work to do, otherwise they'd be doing something else. Fairly straightforward logic, but they've been verbally attacked so much that anything resembling an attack puts them on the defensive. It's baggage, an issue they need to deal with, but not a damning trait--it's human. That was the hardest thing for me to understand, and once I did, things started making a lot more sense all around.

The workday while I was there was a functional sunrise-to-sunset, which makes sense for a farm. I never completely adjusted to the schedule, having just come from a situation where getting up early didn't work, and I didn't feel as though anyone thought worse of me for it. I got up as early as I could so I could help with the horses and because breakfast was accordingly early. Meals were communal, but if you didn't want to eat, I never got the impression--expressed by some in this thread--that you were required to attend. In fact, I wasn't given the impression that anything was required. They were wary of my being a freeloader, because I didn't have much money at the time, and usually people who label themselves "visitors" contribute at least some money for their food. But what I wanted to do with my time was entirely up to me. If anything, I wish I'd been given more structure to be introduced to more aspects of the farm, its work and arts. While I was there I helped with goats, horses, the making of the new diningroom table, and a demolition crew which had been offered the use of everything they could salvage from a house that was going to be destroyed anyway. We dismantled and saved just about all of it, and carried it back to the farm for future building projects. The labor wasn't forced, but since I expressed an interest in knowing what life at the farm is like, it was understandably expected that I would participate in some sort of work. I also helped with some basic chores like sweeping, taking out the compost, and since I had kissed Hellen I was allowed to bypass the ten-day quarantine and help with cooking and dishes as well.

That brings up another interesting aspect of their life: Their sexuality. On my second or third night, Hellen asked me if I wanted to go for a walk together. She had been and was showing an obvious interest in me, and I was simply curious. When she asked if she could kiss me, I said no. A little later she did anyway. I don't regret the fact that our relationship became sexual (we did not have sex, and it never came up), but I do feel upon reflection that a trust was violated by her, and expect to face that if I ever go back. That's not a judgement against the Zendik way of life, just something that happened between two people. She was also made uncomfortable by my way of dissecting the philosophy, which felt like a personal attack at times, and she broke off with me. I've heard tell by a friend that when asked about me, I was recalled as, "oh, Helen's Marvin!"

One thing I've noticed about the difference between my post and the attacks is that I have details and stories to offer. I don't see that in the attacks. Sorry about the maybe-excessive legnth of this though.

Basically criticism was met with the attitude that I was there to learn, not tell them how to live their lives. I think that it's the same as any group dynamic: New people are going to be more accepted as they build history with each of the other people. I know one of my own problems is a presumtion that I am an equal in every situation (yay white male middle-class privelige!), and it's a wall I've beaten myself against many times. In this case it's understandable that I wouldn't be treated as a member of the community: I had never even professed to be! In fact, I was expressly a visitor. Now that I can see the pattern, I think a second round at Zendik will be much more enjoyable. That being said, I think that people ought to visit if they feel ready, but also be prepared to take control of your own destinies as far as this: Zendik may not be the exact way you want to change the world. If not, you should go out and dedicate your lives to your own dreams and do everything in your powers to see them through. I'm not satisfied with the fact that the farm is always so isolated, geographically, I want to live in an intentional community close to a small city or large town, and interact with people from the community at large on a regular basis. That's my trip, and Zendik is entitled to be different. They still inspire me with their belief in honesty as a cornerstone of human interaction, and I think they do good work. Zendik is a challenge to all of us: Can we examine ourselves with the same critical thinking as we examine them?

I would certainly go back, and may. For now, I'm pursuing an education in holistic healing, and want subsequently to travel and see more of what's out there.

I hope I've helped someone with this info. I'd be happy to answer any questions I'm able, but I'm not online often, as I am poor and must use friends' and libraries' computers. Also, I'm not saying anything to diminish or invalidate any real suffering any have experienced, but I am quite surprised to hear of it, and wonder if there's more information there that was omitted.

Namaste all.

 

I agree ethically. I hold adults detrimentally influencing the young (and especially cult leaders themselves) in the greatest disdain. I don't mean to say it's OK for adults to do this. Just that...

1) I see their acts as misguided and self-delusional, not malicious. The problem is trusting oneself too much, putting a private idealogy ahead of compassion, connectedness, and balance.

2) In practice, I'm not aware of any measures that can be taken to hold them accountable unless laws are broken that enforcement agencies care about. If you know ways of practically holding accountable adults who psychologically exploit vulnerable adolescents, I am in full support. But after years of advocacy, I don't know any such ways.

So my pragmatic solution, although an incomplete one, is to speak out as much as possible so that people can be forewarned and are therefore less vulnerable. This undermines the power of well-meaning but abusive controllers. I think the cults are already collectively showing signs of collapse, but I don't have any hard data on this.

The Internet is such an incomparable tool in this regard. Before the Internet existed, people could not get information like this. Now they can. Mind control depends on controlling the flow of information and suppressing critical thought. In the Internet age, this becomes much more difficult. We are moving in the right direction.

Love and blessings,
Owl Watching Bear

 

Hello All;


I'm very new to these boards (about three minutes old, according to the wee clock on my desktop), and happened to wander in via a search engine for Zendik.

This message goes out especially to Red Lentil. Your saga was both hilarious and deeply disturbing...and I shudder to think of what might've happened if I had actually had the means to get to Zendik. I was in a very similar position, having been abused by a relative at home, I'd moved to live with my Dad and felt very detached from both him and...well, the rest of the world...I was trying to build a new life, a new set of ideals and got caught up in the utopian image the zendik website seems to celebrate.

Luckily I live in deepest Yorkshire (North of England, wet, windy, rainy...) and back then I didn't have a penny to my name. Thankfully I just couldn't get the air fare...I hate to think of what they're doing to those poor kids who go out there, not knowing what's up and what's down, feeling so vulnerable and desperate to be accepted...

Listen, I just wanted to pass on my sympathies over what happened to you, and to say hi to everyone.

Must go now, it's pushing three o clock and I'm ready to pass out...

Iris x

 

Revel’s responses are typical of core Zendik members. He was not at the farm when I was there, yet he claims my experiences are fictitious. He also claims that they are different from who they were, and asks us to forget their past. I remember this same message from my time there. Should we forget the Holocaust of Germany, or our own history of slavery? Perhaps these things could be declared to have never happened, and any remembrance thereof to be the delusion of some disgruntled malcontent? By not acknowledging the past, Zendik’s future is built on a foundation of lies. Revel seems to be the ideal Orwellian spokesman for Zendik. With no sense of history, and no respect for anyone who has already walked in his path, such a true believer can utter the double-talk the Zendiks are famous for.



So is Zendik culture all that different from the elements of our own culture that ask us to ignore our own history? What new forms of inhumanity await those who believe that no wrong can be done? Indeed, isn’t that fate the history of all revolutions that have had the arrogance to utterly discard their own heritage?



Now despite what I have said above, I don’t hold any grudges towards any one involved with Zendik Farm. I have forgiven all those who have wronged me, and I desire no restitution. Yet understanding the fallacy of Zendik culture takes more time than a six-week stint with them. My only desire in these posts is to convince a few people that Zendik Farm is far from the utopia that has been advertised.

 

well said