Dead Heads for Obama

You talk about a war. Which one? You honestly think Iraq was a proper war? Look where we are at because of it.

Who are these islamic maniacs? they are not part of state. they are not like the Nazi's. its not a uniformed army, with a central location. your proposing war forever. because the enemy you want to destroy only grows with every bullet fired. We need to ramp up diplomacy. the Iraq war set us so far back for a more peaceful middle east. the area will never be perfect.

I want to know what you define victory in Iraq as. When will we be done? You cannot (like John McCain wants) have an open ended war. None of this, I'll tell you when i see it. What is victory? when is it fit for us to leave?

"I don't oppose war in all circumstances and when i look over this crowd today I know there is no shortage of patriots and patriotism. But what i do oppose is a dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason, but on passion. Not on principal, but on politics. Now let me be clear, I suffer no illusions about Sadam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people, to secure his own power. But I also know Sadam poses no imminent or direct threat to the United States. And in concert with the international community he can be contained. Until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length. An undetermined cost. With undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support; we will only fan the flames of the middle east and encourage the worst, rather than the best impulses of the arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars, I am opposed to dumb wars. You want a fight President Bush? Then lets finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-qaeda. You want a fight President Bush? then lets fight to ween ourselves off middle eastern oil. through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of exxon mobil. Those are the battles we need to fight. Those are the battles we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair. The consequences of war are dire; the sacrifice immeasurable. we may have occasion in our life time to once again rise up in defense of our freedom and pay the wages of war. but we ought not, we will not travel down that hellish path blindly."
Barack Obama
Oct. 2, 2002

 

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You say you are not a war monger but you are supporting McCain who is a warmonger. "Its like that Beach Boys song Bomb Bomb Iran ha ha ha" -John McCain.

The Grateful Dead didn't get into politics very much but they were against the Vietnam War and Jerry would be against the Iraq War.

Like John Prine said "Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore. were allready over crowded from your dirty little wa.r Jesus don't like killing no matter what the reasons for and your flag decal won't get you into heaven any more."

Look at the differences between WWII and The Iraq War. We got into World War II to stop an unprovoked preemptive war of aggression that was initiated under false pretenses. All we did was defend ourselves. The Iraq war is an unprovoked war of aggression that was initiated under false prtetenses. WE were the aggressors! Comparing Saddam to Hitler is like comparing a beebee gun mounted on a bicycle to an Abrahms tank. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11,had no weapons of mass destruction and wasn't in kahootz with al-Qaida. It was just one great big lie!

bw:Intiating a preemptive war of aggression was one of the main charges brought against Hitlers henchmen at the Nuremburg War Crimes Trials.

Just replace the words Vietnam with Iraq and communism with terrorism and you have the same old excuses that didn't hold water forty years ago.

 

When we win.

When the Middle East and the United States is safe.

Now, YOU tell me when will that be?

If we pull out now...all those Islamaic maniacs will rebuild their terrorist training camps designed to kill and destroy human life. Obama knows this...and he doesn't care. Therefore, I question his judgement and allegiance.

I don't trust Barak Obama.

*Obama sat under a racist anti-American pastor (Rev. Jeremiah Wright) for 20 years...and pretended not to know his own pastor was racist anti-American nut job?????

*Obama had his political career kicked off at Bill Ayres house, a known unrepentive terrorist, who conducted a campaign of bombing public buildings in the U.S., that included, the New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972.

Again, I question Obama's judgement and allegiance.

And so should you...

and so should the American people.



Obama is a dangerous risk.

The only reason I brought up Hitler and W.W.II was because, another member said all Hippies are against War.

I just made the point -- taking Hitler from power through war, was a good thing.

Judge not, that you be not judged.

You don't know John McCain's heart.

Tell that to Obama...and all the ungodly democrats who support the murdering of the innocent unborn.

The USA has murdered more lives with abortion, than all the people who have died in war since the United States was formed.

Obama supports the murder of the innocent unborn.

yeah ok...

I guess we should of let Saddam Hussein free because he was a nice guy, huh?

Grow some balls and take your peace message to the Middle East...

then I'd respect your opinion and take you more seriously.

But, no...you'd rather sit home --sucking up freedom --and bitching on your computer.

Let me know when you are heading over to the Middle East to sing ''Give Peace A Chance''...

I guess that won't be happening anytime soon.

No Guts.

Vietnam and the War In Iraq are two different wars...

the reasons are different.

 

i am not a voter

i am an anarchist

i know that my preferred system of [non]government would be ludicrous for the u$ as a whole, as it stands

that being said, i think anyone of the left who actively participates in voting should vote against mccain, by voting for obama

there is only an inch of difference between them--but it is the inch where we all live

 

Voting stats as promised.

The following stats are taken from the book Armed and Dangerous, author Greg Palas, Dutton Publishing. Greg Palast is the winner of the George Orwell Courage in Journalism award for his BBC TV investigations Greg Palast ahs spent the last thirty years getting the goods on the corporate conmen and political hucksters who would auction of our future to the lowest bidder.


November 2, 2004
Iowa NewMexico Ohio
Ballots spoiled Iowa 18,847 New Mexico 21,084 Ohio103,660

Provisional Iowa7,368 New Mexico6593 Ohio33,998
ballots uncounted

Absentee Ballots
uncounted Iowa10,596 New Mexico4,217 Ohio15,519

Ghost vote and
Blocked votes Iowa unknown New Mexico2,087 Ohio85,950


Total uncounted Iowa36,811 NewMexico 33,981 Ohio239,127

Bush "Victory"
margin Iowas10,059 New Mexico 33,981 Ohio118,599




Then there's the vote caging lists that were accidentally sent to www.georgewbush.org instead of www.georgewbush.com

These lists targeted voters from areas that where a lot of deployed soldiers used to live and areas that were mostly African American and Hispanic

Nationally the total number of voters shunted to provisional ballots was 3,107,490

The total number rejected was even more suprising 1,0907,729.

 

John McCain voted AGAINST the recent GI Bill funding increase saying it gave our service men and women too many perks!!!!!

Rev. Wright is correct. Obama is African American and therefore knows what its like to be called a ******. Anti American? !! God can not and will not bless this country and will condem us due to the fact we have mistreated the poor and minorities! Thats not being Anti American its telling the truth!

In the Bible Jesus prounounces a blessing on peacmakers and James Chapter two clearly says that Christians are not to give preferential treatment to the rich.

John McCain said we shouod be prepared to stay in Iraq for 100 years. He voted for and continues to support a preemptive war of aggresion. Like the saying goes if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

Websters Dictionary defines warmonger as the following warmonger: n. a person who advocates,wants, or tries to precipitate war.

Democrats don't believe in mufering the unborn. We do believe in the freedom of choice.

You clain to believe in life but you support a war athat has claimed 4,000 American lives and approx. 1,0000 Iraqi lives.

www.therealmccain.com
www.informationclearinghouse.info

www.theocracywatch.org

www.talk2action.org


Your mind is made up so I'll try not to confuse you with any more facts.

A ligner hert zich zeineh ligen azo lang ein biz er glaibt zich alain.
A liar tells his story so oftern the he get to believe it himself. -Yiddish proverb

 

Rev. Wright is wrong...according to Obama.

Obama condemned the racist anti-American teachings of Rev. Wright.

Or unless Obama is lying?

Myself, I think Obama is lying.

Obama is a closet racist saying anything to get elected.

I think Obama is more than just a closet racist...but, I'm not going to get into it.

Beware of Obama.

Do a honest, un-bias background check on Baral Obama before voting, that's all I ask every voter to do.

Say and 'spin' it anyway you want...

It's murder...plain and simple.

It's the American Holocaust.

 

Then you need to check out John McCain and Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin is a member of the Dominsionist movement who's stated aim is take over the USA revoke the Constitution and establish a theocratic facist dictatorship.

www.therealmccain.com

www.talk2action.org

www.informationclearinghouse.info

I'm not really all for Obama I'm just against McCain.

Don't get me started on Joe "The plumber". He isn't even licensed. $250,000 a year plumbing business? He must do plumbing for Donald Trump!


Come on Come on sign up come on. This ones nothing like Vietnam, Except for the bullets except for the bombs, except for the bombs, except for the youth that's gone.-Michael Franti

You can bomb the world to peices but you can bomb it into peace.-

 

>"When we win.

When the Middle East and the United States is safe.

Now, YOU tell me when will that be?"


***This is the exact type of bullshit answer I said you couldn't give. "when we win" is not a fucking answer. What is winning? What is the finish line?

when the middle east and the US are safe??? what fucking world do you live in??? this will never be. We aren't even safe from our own people, America has one of the most astronomical murder rates in the world. When the middle east is safe?? are you brain dead?

These are goals which can never be reached. you are talking about an eternal war. that is unacceptable.




>"Obama sat under a racist anti-American pastor (Rev. Jeremiah Wright) for 20 years...and pretended not to know his own pastor was racist anti-American nut job????? "


***Rev. Wright's initial speech that he was flamed for was not untrue at all. His speech was angry, but not untrue...could it be taken as divisive? yes. but, what he followed up to say in his week long press junket, was where the crossed a line. He showed a character of himself, not his true self. Rev. Wright did many good things for his community and its too bad things had to end up this way.

And if you're going to bring up Pastors, Preacher and Reverends...then lets talk about Rev. Hagee who said Katrina was "God's punishment for Gays". Or Jerry Fallwell who said 911 was because of the "gays"...do you see a pattern here? Or what about the Witch doctor that came to Palin's church to expel the demons? There are fingers to be pointed at everyone.

>"Obama had his political career kicked off at Bill Ayres house, a known unrepentive terrorist, who conducted a campaign of bombing public buildings in the U.S., that included, the New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972."

This is a lie. A false fact. Untrue. Sorry, you're wrong.



no lets talk about actual policy.


How much money do you make Mr. Psychedelic? I doubt you are making over $250,000 (don't get upset, that wasn't an attack, just the reality of someone on HIPforums)...so why would you want a tax plan like McCain's?? which will give tax breaks to the very wealthy and large corporations? McCain wants to tack on another 4 billion dollars to the initial Bush tax cuts to oil companies. He wants to massively expand offshore drilling, when we could be putting that energy into the fuels of the future. We use 25% of the worlds oil and only have 3% of it. we can't drill our way out of it. so for that to be your primary slogan for energy independence is a joke. But John McCain will say we should take the "all of the above" approach, kind of like saying "we're gonna try everything. don't worry, with us, you get it all." that's a real thought out plan....much like his cabinet of "the smartest people" to save the economy...the man is brilliant (sarcasm). Obama is not going to end oil drilling, he is merely going to direct the attention to where it should be.

 

Psychedelic_Rocker: Abortion is not murder. Especially when performed in the first or start of the second trimester. this is not a person. this is a lump of cells. I agree late term abortion is wrong. But in the case of the mothers health or life, it is permissible. because the mother, who is already apart of this earth, who has connections, friends, family...etc...is more important.

With every post you look more and more like an ignorant right wing nut.

You make it seem as if we don't love America. I love this country and would defend its borders with my life. What i will not do is go to some forsaken desert and kill those who don't threaten us. Just because I think John McCain will be a shitty president and a continuation of most if not all the Bush policies, does not mean I don't love this country. I protest things like the Iraq war because it makes us weaker. The war has bolstered corporations like Halliburton, but has left the average american behind. it has killed 4000+ of our brothers and sister and at least 100,000 Iraqis. It has done nothing to make us safer. I love our constitution and bill of rights...and i become infuriated when there are those who want to piss on it and try to tell me I don't respect it.



and don't fool yourself, Abortion is not the "American Holocaust"...The american holocaust was the systematic destruction of its native people. don't forget the millions who were slaughtered and pushed to infertile lands to die.

 

and you didn't refute anything in the Obama speech I quoted? Kind of hard to do isn't it? Seems like a clear rational thought. Something that escapes McCain on a daily basis.

 

I'm not here to debate.

I stand by everything I said in this thread.

But, I'm not gonna go on and on...because it will never end.

You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

If you wanna call it a cop-out and think you won the debate? Go ahead, if it makes you feel better?

I might pop into this thread, from time to time and post my opinion, but I'm not going to debate. No one's going to win. No one's mind is going to change. I'll just defend my point of view--if I choose to?

All I know is I'm a huge fan of the Grateful Dead -The Dead - Ratdog and Phil Lesh & Friends music and I'm not going to vote for Obama because they want me to. I'll think for myself. Thank you very much.

 

If you think I am voting for Obama because the Dead told me to, you are sadly mistaken.


You're not here to debate? Just post your opinion and run? So, you can say what you believe, but not really defend it? My mind is able to be changed. It just takes a well proposed, rational thought. So far you have done nothing but spew right wing talking points. "Ayres, Wright, Taxes...etc."

I know you weren't trying to change my mind, but if you want to even look like you "think for yourself" then try to get some facts that are not from a McCain campaign commercial.