Oh, and about the flyers.. They won't change anything. It's a lost cause. If I can't even change your mind about how this doesn't matter, or vice versa even, how do you expect a simple flyer to change the mind of an ignorant person who probably doesn't even know what's going on in the world? It's not going to change. People aren't going to change. Ignorance is bliss.
it does matter and it doesnt matter, its everything and its nothing, its all weve got but at the same time its so small,love, and a vision for a better tommorow for you and me, nothing complex or hard to understand, just a better tommorow.....
And the truth is.. it's all pointless. It's all a game. No one can really win when it comes to politics. And those who know the truth can't change anything. Don't get caught up in it all, Alex. You're smarter than that.
\ This is eerily similar to the 'on a dare' thread. You are going off topic and making no sense...love has nothing to do with politics, unless you love politics. Please stop doing this, I thought we were having a debate. And like Staples said, hanging up fliers isn't going to do jack shit. If you really want to do something, go to www.votenader.org, and sign up to be a campaign volunteer there. Whenever you get an email from the area coordinater, email back, and tell him you will help in all ways possible. He or she will send you fliers, yard signs, buttons, etc etc, and you can go to some store or go door to door and educate people about Nader's campaign. Besides, most people have already decided between Bush or Kerry, so the most logical thing to do was to try and persuade people to a 3rd party candidate.
what im sayin is even if nader is elected, does that stop child molestation, murder, rape,terrorism, does it take all the hate out of the world??? if we all just loved one another(its so fucking simple yet so many people have such a hard time with it), we wouldnt even need something to tell us what to do, just something to keep us organized...love
What the hell does that have to do with anything? No matter who is elected, those things will exist, that is all irrelevent to what we're discussing. You support Kerrry, and all I want to know is why....why...why do you support him? Why is that so hard to answer?
i support love, i support a better tommorow, i support good things, i support realistic things, kerry is a little more realistic than nader and a little gooder than bush...and love is relevant to all man, what ISNT love relevant to...
You're right. It's bullshit that we have to have a government to keep us organized. But people don't love eachother. And they aren't going to change, which leaves us with a government. No, Nader isn't going to change every individual's behaviour, obviously. But in him there is hope. He advocates peace and tolerance, unlike Bush and Kerry and most politicians who are only in it for selfish purposes and greed. Nader knows he won't be elected but that doesn't stop him from trying. It's not necessarily about winning, it's about fighting the system.
Kerry is not more 'realistic'.... If you supported good things, you wouldn't support Kerry. edit: I take that back, actually. I guess Kerry might be more 'realistic' to some, depending on what their take on reality is.
I think the only realistic person you can support is youself... you're only molding yourself into another's shoes/beliefs in politics.
that is what i meant jester, about the realistic thing... and the thread didnt actually move, i just made another one in the politics form
I support Nader because I had my beliefs, and I supported Kerry because I thought he was going to change shit. I checked out Ralph's site and found out that he has the same views as I have on every issue that has been posted there. He wants to pull out of Iraq like we did in Vietnam. He wants to make the government smaller. He wants to repeal the Patriot Acts. He cares about the environment. Instead of being pro choice he is pro abortion, this is one of my favorite things about him. He will legalize abortion so that women have the choice; pro choice, like Kerry, will leave it to the people to have it legalized or not, and sadly there is a great number of Conservative Christians in this country who would vote against any such legalization. The same goes for gay marriage...he would legalize hemp for industrial uses, which would make billions of dollars for this country. Universal healthcare, his stance on immigration, affirmative action, poverty...there's so many. Ralph is like a wet-dream for me. First off, Ralph isn't a member of the Green Party, he's in the reform party. Secondly, it was not his fault that Bush won Florida and Gore lost, thats a big myth. Al Gore won the election, it was the Supreme Court that allowed the Florida Republicans to manipulate the court and the election. It was Al Gore who did extremely shitty, he lost his home state of Tennessee. Millions of Democrats voted for George Bush, when only a few thousand voted for Nader. And both the Democrats and Republicans fucked up..do you know anything about the election fraud and the turning away of black voters? They turned away black voters because they have the same name as criminals throughout this country. Blacks who had never been convicted of a crime in their lives were told they couldn't vote because they were felons. Incase you don't get why they did this, a large percentage of blacks in the state of Florida are registered as Democrats. This was all a game by Jeb Bush's office to give Bush the state. Jeb promised the state to his brother, and thats exactly what happened. Ralph Nader didn't spoil shit, the election had been decided long before the voting took place.
I don't talk much politics because its a hornets nest and usually the people talking alot of politics are only doing it to argue for who they want elected.Because they have said something that appeals to them and their life style. But I will say that I would love to support Nader. Since the 70's I've admired him.I think he would push for alot of reform and I doubt he could be bought. Maybe this is why he is not being allowed on the ticket in every state...thats our goverment at work there. It is just a shame that goverment is being run more and more like an "old boys network corporation" than run by the people, for the people. Until there is MAJOR reform, its a big pot of back-slappin',ass-kissin, scratch your back-you scratch mine,pay me big bucks-I'll do your bidding, up for sale, puppet-on-a-string,,tell the people what they want to hear-then do what the big boys tell you to, kind of thing. Right now I just remember every election I covered for the newspaper, and listening to all the lovely sounding promises that dissolved for one reason or another after the candidate was elected. So....I'm not crazy about either one of the 2 party guys, and I just at this point don't think it matters much either way. The president does not run this country, and once he is elected...even his hands are somewhat tied. Thats all I will say...I will not argue politics,I will read what others write, I will listen to others words, I may change my mind if I come across a [point I hadn't considered but I think its silly to argue about it. Kind of like I think its silly when the commentaters talk about the football game before it starts, during the game then pick it apart post game. Its fine to state what you think and why you think something is wrong, but I've seen too many of these discussions reduced to name-calling. And I don't do that. teepi
I personally like Nader's views, but the word on the street is that he's a real asshole and Kerry seems more lighthearted, although, I don't agree with every word spoken that any politician says. Someone got me started today and asked me if I liked George Bush... this was in gym... and I said No... and then he said "He'd beat John Kerry's ass in a fight and his daughters are hot sluts"... I stared at him like "You dumbfuck!" Then everyone in the locker room agreed... there were a few people who were independent in there as well. I'd take Kerry or Nader anyday but... this is really a tough election. JUST PICK ONE DAMNIT... AS LONG AS THEY CAN WIN AND IT ISN'T BUSH. I like kerry better, but I'm not in love with him. Nader.. his views are great, but he's supposedly an asshole to people (well, so is bush) and I have to say I like libertarianism and like Badnarik... but I just don't like the fact that he's so focused on trade and economics... that's a good thing, but it's just too capitalistic. I like Kucinich, but he hasn't a chance in hell...
So what? Who cares what Nader is like in person? And this is only what you've heard, can you back this up with evidence? "as long as they win and it isn't Bush"...well hate to break it to ya, but Kerry and Bush are one in the same. Lets just forget about abortion(which Kerry is against but wont make it illegal) and gay marriage, and lets look at the things that will really affect this country: the war, for starters. Kerry wants more troops than Bush wants, and although the proposed draft was recently shot down, that is the only way either of them will get troops. Kerry wants to alter some parts of the Patriot Act, not repeal it completely; the parts he wants to outlaw are the parts that deal with un-warrented searches. That is it (I believe). He is better than Bush on healthcare, but is he really going to stick with this? Just how is he going to make more jobs available, or get millions out of poverty? Bush promised to do both four years ago, and look where we are at now. They are the same in one, and anyone who supports Kerry because "he is not Bush" is obviously not looking at the big picture.
Well, you figure you might as well just give someone else a shot... there's enough for everyone to go around I mean... what the hell is there to lose, what's the worst that could happen. I still don't like nader as a person. But... I like his views. He's not going to win though.
Nader For President 2004 P.O. Box 18002 - Washington, DC 20036 - www.VoteNader.org FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE For Further Information: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 Kevin Zeese 202-265-4000 Nader Receives Endorsement of Reform Party USA Washington, DC: The Independent Presidential Campaign of Ralph Nader welcomed the endorsement of the Reform Party USA saying: "This endorsement shows that our independent campaign is receiving support from across the political spectrum from people upset with President Bush and looking to shift the power back to the people so a solution revolution can take hold and solve many of the nagging problems and injustices in our society." It also continues to build a coalition to challenge the corporate political duopoly and give the voters more choices in November. The Reform Party’s endorsement will bring more civic activists to the campaign to help get Nader on the ballot throughout the United States. Reform Party members can help spread the message that there is an alternative to the two corporate parties as their history demonstrates. The Reform Party, whose presidential candidate Ross Perot received 19% of the vote in 1992 and nearly 9% in 1996, claims over one million active members. The most immediate priority is to overcome the deliberately obstructive ballot access barriers installed by the Democratic and Republican duopoly. In many states these barriers prevent political competition, blocking more choices and voices from third parties and independent candidates from national to local elections all over the country. Ralph Nader will continue to run as an Independent candidate for President. He welcomes the endorsement of the Green Party if they decide not to run a candidate. "We need to join together to present a strong challenge to the corporate duopoly and show the American people there is an independent candidate with a strong record of fighting for the health, safety and economic well-being of the American people," said Nader. Nader was the Green Party nominee in 2000 and in 1996. I am not endorsing anyone...doesn't matter what I think about any of these guys...I just wanted to provide some info here. teepi
I confess I didn't read every post on this thread, but I saw one I liked today: Defend America Defeat Bush short and sweet and to the point. and true. and I know you all mean well with the Nader talk, but voting for him will not defeat Bush. Kerry sucks less, OK? Flame me if you like, but elections these days are more about voting AGAINST than voting FOR. Maybe they've always been that way, but it's true now more than ever.
Lol, great point...what have we got to lose? I doubt we could get much lower than where we are now. Its not winning, well it is but it isn't. Ralph knows he's not going to win, and I am a realist and I know that as well. I will not choose between the lesser of two evils..I tried, and I couldn't support Kerry without having a guilty consciounse(i have no idea how the fuck that word is spelled). So I came back to Nader's campaign, and I may be going on a state-wide trip promoting Ralph. There is nothing pointless about this. This is a democracy, we have the right to support whoever we want to, and I support Ralph. I know he's not going to win, but my life dream is to fight for a change, and Ralph is just one of many things I am going to fight for. Fuck John Kerry. And yes, he's a member of the Reform Party
