Townhall debate BUSH RULES

He was talking about who he would give tax breaks to..He was pointing out, the wealthiest got a tax break during that time..and Megara, you have conviction, I'll give you that LOL

 

i dont believe thats how kerry worded it. I think kerry's tax plan is better than bushs, but he is clearly misleading the people with this statement, imo.

 

I was interested in Kerry's tax cut for people and small businesses that make under $200,000. It seemed that the only credits he mentioned were for people who have children though. I am also not sure that his numbers were adding up. If he is going to cut taxes to people and small businesses that make under $200,000, add 40,000 people to the army, fund a national health care plan, and give tax breaks to corporations bring jobs back into the U.S. , how can he possibly pay for all of it? If I remember right, the tax cuts he wants to roll back only added up to 80 billion. All of his promises add up to way more than that.

 

It isn't like Bush has any underfunded programs of his own...

There is no way Kerry could give you the entirity of his plans and proposals in a 90 second response to a question.

The roll back may give us 80 billion, but there are other places than just citizen taxes to get the money. He could use the same breaks given to companies outsourcing now and turn it over to companies NOT outsourcing, for example. Moving around budgets, thinning out fat paychecks, doling out government contracts better, etc...


Ugh, I am just ready for change. I can't stand the way things have been going the past 4 years. Bush has given me no optimism.

 

I didn't quite get enough of an answer in his 90 seconds, so I was checking it out on his website and I just can't figure out where he can be getting the $ he is going to need to fund his programs. They all sound pretty good though. I was fairly impressed with most of his answers, but I just can't figure out hows he's going to pay for it yet.

 

Well i liked the part where Bush made a strong promise about there will be no draft reinstated. Remember his father great promise " read my lips, i will not raise taxes"

 

We could restore considerable financial resources to our own domestic economy if we ceased from underwriting essentially the entire Israeli economy at US taxpayer expense. That would be a major start to rectifying our long failed ME policy gambits as well.

 

Megara, or whatever, about the abortion issue.
Kerry doesn't believe in abortion, however, he believes in the constitution, and the constitution says that abortion is a right.
As the leader of the country he would follow the constitution and not his own religious beliefs, which is what we need more of in the country.
Think about it, elected officials, acting in accordance with the constitution, it's so crazy it just might work!

 

The right to an abortion comes from the right of privacy, it is merely an interpretation.

however, if murder is involved, the right to privacy is trumped. You cannot give up life in order for a woman's privacy.


If kerry believes abortion is wrong, he needs to either dump his catholic beliefs since he blindly overlooks murder, or he needs to stand up for his belief that abortion is murder.

 

For our purposes, the word constitution will be changed to 'rule book'.

The supreme court is charged with ruling whether or not a law co-incides with rule book. Therefore, whatever the court rules or not is compatable with the rule book, that is not to say, however, that their rulings are set in stone, but can come up to revue time to time.
The supreme court said that it is in the rule book to have an abortion, so therefore it is.
The president is charged with upholding the rule book, and that means leaving whatever he himself believes at the door.

As for his personal beliefs, the catholic church does not hold sway over his mind. If he believes that the pope can be wrong, but this does not invalidate the core of catholicism, then that is what he believes. Ever met a jew who doesn't keep the shabot, wear the tefflin, keep the holidays or keep kosher, but still calls himself a jew. I have.
ever met a Catholic who believes in Kabbalah? I have.
Ever met a buddhist monk who eats bacon, i have.
ever met a muslim who doesn't pray to mecca 5 times a day, i have.

Faith is really a personal thing, and we are all more or less guilty of keeping the parts that we like and discarding the parts we find incompatable.

 

Of course, the president is also charged with appointing justices to the supreme court. The justices he appoints can overturn roe vs wade and make it illegal.

 

The point of a religion is adhering to a set of principles. The more strict religions(judaism, islam, and catholicisim) are to have their tenents followed.

Can i be a muslim who believes jesus christ is the lord and savior? Especially for catholics, there is a head of the church who dictates the beliefs. A catholic cant really be pro choice pro war pro gay marriage. You arent adhering to their policies..you'd be a catholic only nominally.

 

The point of a religion is adhering to a set of principles. The more strict religions(judaism, islam, and catholicisim) are to have their tenents followed.

The point of a religion is to attain a connection with the supernatural. And people usually throw out the tennants that are deemed 'silly'. I mean, you don't kill people for adultery, or lighting fires on the shabot do you? When's the last time you even kept a shabot?
I guess you don't follow the tennants of your religion, so you are not a christian.


Can i be a muslim who believes jesus christ is the lord and savior? Especially for catholics, there is a head of the church who dictates the beliefs. A catholic cant really be pro choice pro war pro gay marriage. You arent adhering to their policies..you'd be a catholic only nominally.

Most muslims believe jesus was a prophet, some might even accept him as savior, if you still believe in the Koran, then yes, you can be a muslim and believe in jesus.
There is an organization called Jews for Jesus.
And what degrees are there in Catholic hood, my grandma absolutely hates the republican party, so i guess that's a point off. but then again she believes in angels, so there's a point in her favor, she thinks the pope is silly, so i guess that's two points off, but she is probably the closest a living person can come to christhood (if you ever met her you would agree), so that's three in her favor. Is she nominally catholic because she attends mass when she can instead of when she is mandated to. Is she catholic because she makes up her own mind on most issues?

 

I'm not jewish, i dont follow their tennents. I am not saying the bible or any other book needs to be read strictly. However, for catholics, the pope is the head of the church and dictates policy. He says abortion is wrong and catholics are not to believe in it and they dont. To say you can decide 'well i dont agree with the pope, but im still catholic' is just wrong.

Muslims do not believe jesus to be the savior. You are completely destroying these organized religions by basically saying they can think whatever they want but continue to call themselves catholics or muslims.

If you dont adhere to the tennts of the religion, i dont see how can call yourself a member of that religion. I dont get involved in some random point system which you've devised, thats not my job.

Thats the problem we're facing in this society with the destruction of reilgion, people want their cake and want to eat it too. Catholics believe pro life is right, believe gay marriage is wrong, and believe war is wrong. I dont see how anyone who goes against those can call themselves catholic.

This is a tangent though. Kerry believes abortion is wrong and murder. Yet when he walks into the senate hose, he believes a fetus is nothing. Thats a pure lack of conviction.

 

I belive Kerry won the debate, he seemed more in control and more professional. Bush comes across as a loose cannon, several times i thought he was going to explode with anger and walk out. That was the type of vibe he was giving me. Another thing, did you notice the expresions on Bush's face as Kerry was speaking. It was like oh God! n, n, now what do i do, how do i answer to this.

 

This is completely your opinion yet you like to try and present it as fact or truth.

Look, Kerry is a catholic, but he is also a politician. He has to represent all the people, not just the catholics. The concept isn't that hard to understand.

 

Ok, you are totally pulling at strings here...this has got to be the most rediculous point to debate I have ever seen.

First Kerry wasn't in Vietnam, now he isn't Catholic...give me a fucking break.

 

wtf are you talking about vietnam?

I never said anything about him not being catholic either. He believes abortion is wrong.

How can he believe abortion is wrong and murder, but then allow it to continue? It has nothing to do with keeping church away from state. If he believes abortion to be wrong, why does he not stand up for it? Its easy, he's pandering.

Look, kerry needs to stand up for what he believes in, he needs to get off the fense. If he believes abortion is wrong and life is killed, murdered, then he has an obligation to try and stop that.

He needs to stop pandering to collect the religious vote and the female vote.

 

All politicians need to stop pandering, I agree. But panderng for the religious vote? I would say Bush is much more guilty of that.

I still think that you are pulling at strings to try and discredit Kerry. If you don't like how he thinks, fine. But don't expect everyone to share your opinion.

 

Well, in reading down through these multiple pages, I see that the discussion on the debate has turned into a discussion of many things and mostly ones views on religion and abortion....oh well, in trying to stay on topic I thought I would add my observations from the debates...

Open-Minded Visionary Statesman or Dogmatic Bullheaded Brute




One thing that has continually emerged from the debates that we have seen, apart from differences on various issues, is a vast difference in personality and style.

In Kerry we see an effective speaker who possesses an open mind, is respectful, and whose approach is one of a visionary statesman. In Bush we see someone who does not communicate effectively, whose approach is close-minded, dogmatic, bullheaded, and comes across like a brute. Which approach is more Presidential?

Kerry was able to retain his composure when attacked, remain respectful, and continue to speak in a calm and effective manner. Bush, on the other hand, was easily agitated, losing his composure when his positions were challenged, and shouted out his responses to those in the audience. Which approach is more Presidential?

What type of leader do we want? Do we want one who is able to approach a diverse world who is open minded, respectful, an effective speaker, one who is able to retain his composure when he is challenged, who is willing to look at other points of view without becoming "threatened" by them, or do we want one who is close-minded, disrespectful, lacking in communication skills, who becomes notably agitated when he is challenged, who takes an approach with others of "...it's my way or the highway..." and who perceives different points of view as threatening to his "domain"?

For me the choice is easy. I'll take an open minded, visionary statesman over a dogmatic, bullheaded brute everytime.