Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know. -Tao Te Ching; Lao Tsu

Perhaps he's saying that THAT which is there to know can't be spoken of, but knowing this, we can go ahead and speak about it.

Words can only point to the truth.. but always stop shy of... and then it's up to us to look at what they're pointing to, and then let the words (and thoughts) drop away.

 

Eeep ... uhm ... hang on a moment fella's ...

This is not the Christian forum. Unless the regular posters of the Taoism forum don't mind you posting Christian-related quotes from the Bible, you may want to perhaps make another thread in the Christian forum related to the direction this topic is going.

And even then, Skip has posted a New Rule in the Christian forum stipulating NO BIBLE QUOTES! (sorry for the all-caps, its a direct quote). So rather than quotes or pastes from other sites, you may want to afford links to places on the web that support your arguments, perhaps similar to what I did on the "New Rule" link above.

Skip asked me (without directly saying) to move the thread as the thread topic was about Taoism (Tao Te Ching).

So if the topic is not related to the topic of the thread, a saying by Lao Tzu from the Tao Te Ching, then it might be best to branch outside of this thread to a new one in the appropriate forum related to the "new" topic-at-hand.

Sorry.

Thanks!

PS: if you would like, I can split the unrelated posts off in the appropriate forum.

HTML:

 

Sorry, Darrell, I have the bad habit of when someone asks me a direct question, I just answer it. Most times forgeting what the thread is all about until someone reminds me.
I'll try to do better but thanx for the reminders!

 

It is up to the individual to to find out for themselves. Those who know, lead the path.

Ofcourse though, his post is a contradiction it itself, which one make mine a contradiction as to. But sometimes we give a helping hand to show the people the path.

 

He also claimed that he was not a wise sage, nor had he ever meet or even heard of one before. So perhaps he's just restating that?

 

Perhaps for the western new-age mind it would be better put as;

One who knows the mystery of the universe also knows it is ineffable.
One who proclaims to know the mystery, surely knows nothing.

Buddhist's got a good one too;

If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!

It means the same thing.

There are no answers, only a mysterious path (Tao)

 

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know. -Tao Te Ching; Lao Tsu

Perhaps Lao Tsu understood that even when wise men spoke of things of which they had the unrivaled understanding of, they would not be heeded. Many a true word falls dead before the partial ear of society.

 

I have three takes on it.....

1) To have some understanding of Tao is to know that you'll never really understand Tao, and you'll never really be able to explain even the little you do understand.

2) Understanding that every action contains its opposite, the attempt to explain inevitably will also in some way add to the confusion.

3) Your path is not my path. What is right for me is not necessarily right for you.


...then again, by definition, if I'm talking about it I obviously don't know

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

you can't speak the tao. You can speak words all around it, but not IT.

for instance, if you were to go into the context that following the tao is akin to following your heart. Well to do that a person must pay attention to their own heart and decide off it for themselves.

If you speak the tao to someone, speak there heart to them, and they then take your spoken tao, or spoken heart, in placement of direct perception of their own heart. Then you have done them great disservice. Because your words are now emulating the real thing for them and they have no contact with the actual real thing.

This is why you don't speak the tao, you speak all around it, but you don't speak it. You don't pretend to do this, or claim to have done it, because it deters people recognizing the real tao. No word you can speak is the real tao.

Of course you speak. You speak alot. But you don't speak IT, you obviously can't do that.


Some line in the tao te ching says something of the nature that "The sage only helps others to find their own true nature". This means, finding the means to directly percieve the tao themselves. So I think you speak things to guide the flow of their thoughts towards it. But you can't speak IT directly, they have to see it for themselves for it to have the proper effect.

Cause what is God and the Tao? But humanity as a whole. The Tao is greater manifested when each human is directly percieving his necessary flow, the tao himself and following it. Devising his own words right off of it. If but one person is using perception and words other than there own to perceive the Tao, than that means the Tao is not manifested as full as it could be.