Armed in Atlanta

Discussion in 'Politics' started by jneil, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    *le sigh*

    The first article is an opinion piece written by the Publications Director for Libertarian Think Tank in Mass. There is no statistics that are cited whatsoever in the article:

    But gee, thanks for some white dude's opinion.
     
  2. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Second article doesn't prove anything. It only name drops sociologists and claims that research depicts an "ineffectiveness of gun control" in reducing crime. And um, the author is a Federal Conservative Politician who wrote this piece when the Harper Conservatives repealed the gun registry law.
     
  3. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Well, the third article says it all in its title: There's no evidence that banning guns cuts crime.

    Not sure how that was supposed to prove like you said, that more gun control = more crimes. But I'm hopeful with the 4th url link you cited.

    *clicks*
     
  4. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Hmmm. Fourth article was from another slanted and biased source, something called the "IntelectualConservative.com" Nice theory. But it lacks a single statistic.
     
  5. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Fifth Url link you attached: Jaysus Christ. I felt like I just got goatzeed by clicking on a WND site. Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourself for linking that.

    EDIT: 6th url you linked me isn't working.

    EDIT: LOL. A video that depicts a movie where it's law and mandatory to own a gun. "Having a gun changes the balance of power"... um, yeah it does. "My mother told me that because she was armed, she was never afraid."

    Yeah. I still don't see any proof that more gun control = more crimes.

    If you like, I could cite all the opposing links I have on this matter for you to sift through? Can I not argue that Canadians aren't permitted to carry a concealed weapon, yet are crime rates are significantly and drastically lower than the USA? Or is that a false statistic somehow in your mind?
     
  6. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Depicts a movie?? Huh?? What are you talking about? What movie does it depict? Where is there even any mention made about a movie?

    Nice way to avoid the stats, BTW (which were in fact included in the 20/20 video). Attack the messenger, ignore the message. I bet some people here would be proud.

    If you want the actual stats, look them up yourself. Find me some stats that shows gun control lowers the crime rate.
     
  7. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Err... it depicts a segment. Pardon my franglais.

    That wasn't my point. I tried to find stats that show that more gun control = more crime, and couldn't find any. Since you said it like it was a known fact, I assumed you would.

    What facts in the movie?? *watches again*

    EDIT: The fact I hear is that gun crimes went up when they were banned in DC.
    The fact that 5 black maximum security prisoners say that they don't care what the law is, they're "going to carry guns anyway".

    Who is the National Academy of Sciences and why would a Science Academy study gun regulations that reduce violent crimes or murders?
     
  8. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    That has nothing to do with it. The US has far more people and far more urban areas where gun violence most often occurs (most often by people with criminal records). It has nothing do with with concealed carry, and if you had your facts together, you would know that the concealed carry states have lower crime rates than those that do not. That is just a fact.
     
  9. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Do they also have a lower population?? Hmm?? Because I would assume it's also a fact that they do - compare to states like, oh, say New York.
     
  10. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Mmm... okay!!! :)
    I'll disprove your notions that States that allow people to carry guns are less dangerous or have lower crimes rates or whatever you seem to believe.

    This article was published 04/24/2008, so it's up to date with actual statistics.
    "Pro-Gun" States Lead the Nation in Per Capita Firearm Death rates:
    http://www.vpc.org/press/0804gundeath.htm
     
  11. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Sorry, I don't take stats from a rabid anti-gun organization that pulls their stats out of a straw hat.
     
  12. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    From Wikipedia:

    Controversy

    [edit] Criticism of the VPC

    Gun rights advocates have been critical of the accuracy and scientific validity of VPC's reports, charging that the conclusions have already been decided regardless of the statistics. They charge that the VPC has a track record of making allegations for which there is no proof, such as the case of Ronnie Barrett.[6]

    Criticism has also come from other gun control advocates who believe that the Violence Policy Center takes an approach that is not politically feasible.

    Other gun control organizations advocate a gradual approach toward their goals while the Violence Policy Center believes guns are a public health issue and that specific categories, such as handguns, assault weapons, and 50 caliber rifles should be banned.

    [edit] Misleading statements

    The VPC wrote the misleading statement "Semiautomatic assault weapons...are civilian versions of military assault weapons. There are virtually no significant differences between them"[7] but they then contradict the first statement by stating that a civilian gun is semiautomatic but the military version can be semiautomatic or fully automatic which is a very significant difference.

    Additionally, "The most significant assault weapon functional design features are: (1) ability to accept a high-capacity ammunition magazine, (2) a rear pistol or thumb-hole grip, and, (3) a forward grip or barrel shroud. Taken together, these are the design features that make possible the deadly and indiscriminate "spray-firing" for which assault weapons are designed. None of them are features of true hunting or sporting guns"

    A forward grip/barrel shrouds are common on most rifles as it lets the other hand steady the barrel without burning their hand on it. (the VPC includes the AK-47 as an example assault rifle but it does not have a barrel shroud as it is traditionally defined but it has a wooden front grip like almost all long guns) A rifle without a pistol/thumbhole grip can be fired from the hip. Arguably, the most significant feature for "spray-firing" is an option for fully automatic firing which is a feature the civilian guns lack. A "true" hunting or sporting gun is left undefined nor do they explain how having these features prevents it from being used for hunting or sport shooting.

    Furthermore, this statement does not mention that firearms derived from or similar to military designs are often very effective for defensive purposes, for the very same reasons the military uses them for defense.

    To buttress the claim that handguns are ineffective self-defense tools the VPC writes : "In fact, in 1998, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 51 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone"[8] However, they are comparing some people who used a gun in self-defense (only those who killed in self-defense) with people who were unarmed and murdered which does not show that hadguns are ineffective self-defense tools. Additionally, this statement does not take into account the number of times when people use pistols to defend themselves in ways that do not result in the death of their attackers (e.g. not being hit in a vital area, or a situation where just the drawing of a pistol results in a de-escalation).
     
  13. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Sure, you take your information without any stats from Youtube, ABC & Fox News instead.
     
  14. hippiehillbilly

    hippiehillbilly the old asshole

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  15. hippiehillbilly

    hippiehillbilly the old asshole

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    essentially from what i can gather kennesaw georgia,and morton grove illinois (who banned guns at the same time) have grown at the same pace and there crime rates are virtually identical to this day..

    so all in all i would say banning guns or making it law to own one does ZERO,nothing to affect crime rates one way or another..
     
  16. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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  17. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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  18. jneil

    jneil Member

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    I believe the weapon used in Kennesaw's last murder was a knife.
     
  19. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Mmmm. The second article was from 1994. I'm not even going to talk about WND. And the first article seems to be some kind of article with no cited references - again, it's an opinion piece.

    Where are the actual FACTS please? I remain unconvinced that more gun control = more crimes.

    Matt, keep wikiing.
     
  20. jneil

    jneil Member

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    DC, New York, Chicago, all enjoy being practically legal handgun free. Just don't go out at night in any of these cities.
     
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