The Military...

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by workshedprods, Jul 27, 2008.

  1. workshedprods

    workshedprods Member

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    This thread is continued from another (completely unrelated) thread.
     
  2. workshedprods

    workshedprods Member

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    I can't speak too well for the Canadian military. In the U.S., Internet access is fairly universal unless you're living way out in the boonies (which is not entirely out of the question). As for weed, I wouldn't count on it. We're subject to monthly drug tests based on a random selection. Penalties for a positive test are fairly stiff. A bad conduct discharge, at the very least, as well as possible jail time.

    I think the military is a great career... for some. Some people just aren't cut out for it. In the military you'll forge relationships that will last a lifetime. You'll get great benefits, and you'll get to see and experience things most people see from the sidelines. You'll get great training and experience, and a strong platform to get into a number of fields in the private sector. Finally, you'll know that you have made the leap from civilian to citizen, having made the security of your homeland your personal responsibility... (to paraphrase one of my favorite authors.)

    On the other hand, you'll work long hours in some seriously rough, possibly hostile, conditions. Even individuals who aren't in combat face some dangerous working conditions. Especially early in your career, you'll be at the beck and call of people you don't like, and who you are probably smarter than.

    Frankly, I would try to find some people who have been in the military and talk to them. Don't trust television or the movies and, most of all, don't trust recruiters. Whatever they tell you, get it in writing, because once you sign a contract, those promises aren't worth anything. In the U.S., the DoD has been making a huge effort to ensure that recruiters operate above the table and on the up-and-up, but a few bad apples still squeak through. Whatever you do, make sure you research it thoroughly. I would really hate for you to get in there and realize it's not for you, and then have to sweat out the rest of your contract.

    As for Afghanistan... yes. I think we're making serious inroads there. We're building schools, roads, hospitals, and bringing running water and power to people who have never had it before. Hopefully, we can avoid dropping the ball like we did in the eighties, when we helped push the Soviets out.

    As for Iraq... well, that's a different cluster fuck altogether.
     
  3. xexon

    xexon Destroyer Of Worlds

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    I've got no problems with the military, and I think most people share that.

    The military is nothing without a civilian government to direct their actions. With a bad government in place, it tarnishes everything it touches, including the military.

    Our best hope of change is to convince the military that the government has gone sour and needs to be replaced. We're just not there yet. But stress fractures ARE appearing.

    One has to take great care in the explanation so that the attack on the bad government is not seen as an attack on the nation itself. That just gets the military called up to protect the badness and defeats the purpose.

    How many times have we seen that under this administration?



    x
     
  4. workshedprods

    workshedprods Member

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    That's an excellent point, Xexon, and one that I feel is often overlooked. There seems to be an attitude that the military is off the reservation, running it's own show. While it is endlessly irritating to me that civilians want to run a war once it's begun (much like a passenger seizing the controls of a plane during an emergency) it also irritates me when Congress or the White House want to stand back and say, "That was them... we didn't know they were going to do that."

    That's total bullshit. If nothing else, Congress holds the purse strings. Wars expensive these days, and if they really wanted to roll things back, they'd just cut the allowance. But they haven't. What's more, the Pentagon works for the civilian government, as you said. If Congress had the chutzpah to say 'no', (and I mean seriously say it, not just when the cameras are on) this thing would be over life that *snap*.

    Of course, I wouldn't support a quick bail-out strategy. I'm just saying that it could be done if the right pressure were applied.
     
  5. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    As for Afghanistan... yes. I think we're making serious inroads there. We're building schools, roads, hospitals, and bringing running water and power to people who have never had it before.

    Wow, things must have changed drastically in recent months. It was only a few months ago that I saw (on CSPAN) an interview with a Republican Party activist who had served in Afghanistan. He stated emphatically that things had not improved at all by any measure since literally the first day the first troops arrived, and that in many ways were were in worse shape.

    Another reporter added that he's covered wars all over the world, and this was the first one where "the enemy is not just everywhere, but they boldly show themselves everywhere." His view was that the Iraq War was going drastically better than the Afghan War.

    After all the lies we're heard on Iraq, I no longer support the War On Weddings.



    If you're not living on the edge, you're probably in my damned way.
     
  6. workshedprods

    workshedprods Member

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    I'm not going to lie, things are still rough out there. In fact, things are rougher in Afghanistan than in Iraq. That's largely because a great deal of resources have been siphoned from OEF to OIF. However, there seems to be an end in sight for Iraq in the next several years, and maybe we can start diverting those resources back toward Afghanistan.

    That said, there is definitely progress being made. The quality of life in much of Afghanistan is better than it was before. It's important to keep in mind that a lot of the nasty things going on there were there long before we showed up.
     
  7. wackyiraqi

    wackyiraqi Senior Member

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    Workshed is correct, and I question the motives of this "Republican Party Activist" who has served in Afghanistan. He must of had his head pretty far up his ass if he thinks that things are not better, and in some cases worse. Because of Pakistans refusal to allow operations on their soil, the Taliban and AQ fighters were allowed to regroup in the Waziristan region. Fighters have also been fleeing Iraq to rejoin the fight into Afghanistan. It is likely that the resources that were used in Iraq could have helped the situation in Afghanistan. Iraq was training ground for a new insurgent offensive in Afghanistan. Tactics used to successfully attack and ambush coalition forces in Iraq have been also successfully used in Afghanistan.
     
  8. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Workshed is correct, and I question the motives of this "Republican Party Activist" who has served in Afghanistan.

    I'll try to find his name when I get home, I believe he was a speaker at a major party event and that he has at least one book out describing his experiences there. He certainly wasn't someone not famous.
     
  9. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I found it. And I'm wrong. His name is Marcus Luttrell, and he wrote the book Lone Survivor, which I've not read.

    He didn't say there had been no progress since the start of the war, he said there has been no progress at all since 2005.
     
  10. wackyiraqi

    wackyiraqi Senior Member

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    Luttrell, haha. Yeah, your post was a little misleading. I actually met Luttrell in Virginia before Red Wing, along with Lt. Mikey Murhpy and PO Danny Dietz. God rest their souls. Luttrell was on the team sent into Kunar province along with three other SEALs to neturalize Taliban leader Ahmad Shah. At one point during the mission, the teams location was compromised by local goat herders. The goat herders were allowed to go free and they later reported the teams location to local Taliban. Approximately 150 Taliban fighters ambushed the team, resulting in the death of Murphy, Dietz, and Axelson. A Shit Hook was sent in carrying 8 SEALs and 8 Nightstalkers to extract Luttrell and was subsequently shot down, killing all aboard. An Afghan villager discovered Luttrell and brought him to safety. He owes his life to the Afghans that gave him food and medical attention and refused to turn him over to the Taliban.

    This is an amazing story and one that I recommend everyone read. The story really shows the strength and honor of the US military's finest.

    Note: Luttrell also owes his life to his team members that died fighting off the Taliban fighters. Approximately 100-125 Taliban fighters were killed by the grossly outnumbered SEAL team. Team leader Murphy broke cover to call in back-up on his sat phone, and was shot several times in the stomach and back. Murphy managed to complete the call before succumbing to his injuries.
     
  11. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I'll read his book, eventually, as it does sound like an interesting story.

    I recently found a really good audio interview with Nathaniel Fick of "Generation Kill" fame; his book, "One Bullet Away: The Making of a Marine Officer," is another I will eventually read.

    Though I'm still a leftie, but I do enjoy reading military history for some reason.
     
  12. guy

    guy Senior Member

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    all the americans have to do now is hope that russia won't start supplying weapons and training to the taliban - ala the americans in the eighties. when that happens it will be pay back from the russians for what they endured in afghanistan.

    imagine if no helicopters or unmanned aircrfat can fly due to modern SAMs, the war would be all but over and hundreds of casualites taken every day.

    at that point it will be a bridge too far, troops would have to move on the ground and unsupported by any aircover. retreating armies would be ambushed all the way back to the kyhber pass no doubt this will all make a good film one day.
     
  13. wackyiraqi

    wackyiraqi Senior Member

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    Time Magazine did a pretty good article too, if you don't have the time to read Luttrell's book. I will try to find out what month it printed.
     
  14. wackyiraqi

    wackyiraqi Senior Member

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