Conspiracy or lobbying?

so i guess you think this is all fine and dandy as well odon??

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/21/civilliberties.privacy

just a harmless experiment to track city dwellers movements.. i know i know..

 

From what I can gather you had to register on facebook and those that did, were the ones they were "tracking" - It did "roam" but only to locate those that had registered. It was not following strangers and monitoring anybody else but those that chose to take part.
While doing this, they were doing some boring research of their own.

In your article it also said:

Although initially confined to Bath, Cityware has spread across the planet after the software was made freely available on the internet sites Facebook and Second Life. Thousands of people downloaded the software to equip their home and office computers with Cityware scanners.

Have you looked further in to this or just read this particular article.

I'd appreciate you putting me right, If I am wrong.




Social networks are EVERYWHERE, not just online.



Cityware is an application that helps you explore how your real world and online social networks are intertwined. Using Cityware you will be able to explore the network of people that surround you in day-to-day life - whether or not they actually use Facebook. For example, you can see who you and your friends spend most time with and meet most often.



To use Cityware you need to add it to your Facebook profile. Additionally, you need to own a Bluetooth-enabled device, which you must set to "discoverable" mode. Finally, you need to live in an area where Cityware is supported. Cityware, much like Facebook, is a network-based application: to take advantage of its functionality you need to be part of a network,society,club, or city that supports Cityware.



UPDATE: Cityware now works with Second Life as well. For more information, add the application and read the instructions.



Thank you all for your interest in Cityware. Numerous nodes have already been established around the world, including in Bath, London, Oxford, Cambridge, San Diego, Stanford, Hong Kong, Australia, Singapore, Toronto, Springfield, Las Vegas, Berlin, and still going!

Please consider joining the Cityware group.




Frequently Asked Questions

Why should I use Cityware?

While Facebook does a great job of capturing our friendship networks, it does not capture who we actually spend time with. During the course of a day we come in contact with various people: friends we meet at university or work, people we always see at the bus stop, and complete strangers that we bump into while shopping. These people form our real-world social networks.

These daily "random" encounters with strangers are actually quite important. This is how you make new friends, or meet the love of your life. Using Cityware, you can identify your real-world network, see who you bump into most often, and explore how much time you spend with friend, or strangers.

How does Cityware work?

Cityware works using Bluetooth nodes embedded within the environment. These nodes detect your mobile phone and those of the people around you. Using this we can show you information about the your encounters with other people.

UPDATE: Cityware now also works with Second Life. Add the application for more information.

Does Cityware collect personal information?

No, Cityware does not collect any personal information using its Bluetooth nodes, it simply detects the presence of Bluetooth devices in Cityware enabled areas. Only your Bluetooth address and device name are recorded, all Bluetooth phones will have the option to be non-discoverable if you do not wish to be seen by Cityware nodes.

How does Cityware connect my Bluetooth data to my Facebook account?

We use a system you're probably familiar with here on Facebook, it's called tagging. Instead of tagging people you recognise in photos, you can tag devices which you have been seen with and which you recognise as belonging to one of your friends.

How can I find out my Bluetooth address / ID?

If you have a Nokia you can type *#2820# to see your Bluetooth address. On a Samsung mobile you need to type: *#232337#. Unfortunately there is no standard method of retrieving a Bluetooth address which will work for all phones. We suggest pairing your device with another Bluetooth enabled device such as a laptop or friends phone to see your Bluetooth address.

http://www.************/apps/application.php?api_key=9e251642120bc34e0f42d76611bf7be8

http://www.cityware.org.uk/

 

no i didnt look further into it,,i figured i would give you something to do..

all i can say is im glad that i dont buy into all the electronic gadgetry.. its becoming obvious if they want to track your movements those toys make it a piece of cake for them..

 

It is good to look further in to things, it stops you becoming too paranoid

It is a "piece of cake" I agree - but they they don't want to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6524495.stm

Second to last paragraph.

 

There are an estimated 4.2 million CCTV cameras in Britain.

Not In LONDON

"However, there are 4.2 million cameras in London, so how can you argue with that when that is a fact?"

 

Well since Mr. P Rat here can't seem to get his numbers straight, that obviously means that these cameras have super-duper positive intentions and will never be used for anything shady. No wait, that just means that everything he says and ever has said must be totally false. Right? This should be changed from the politics forum to the "forum of impeccable logic".

Personally, I'd take a cctv camera right over my pillow. Shit, I'd take 4.2 million of them, just in case a few break or something.

-Mike

 

All he had to distinguish was the difference between Britain and London.
I'm not personally going to discount everything he says because of that one error.
It is if he decided to repeat the same error or make some stupid excuse for getting not his figures but the location wrong.

Edit: we all make mistakes

 

Well that is very reasonable of you. Unfortunately ol' hiptasdick seems to rely on that tactic. Luckily we have been able to positively identify him as a computer, with only so many programmed responses. He seems to maybe have a virus or two, but that's because he's probably a dell or something equally lame. He's probably even running IE with a windows os. So sad.

-Mike

 

Yeah, I cut PR some slack, why the hell not.

I'll hazard a guess because PR makes quite a few mistakes.

Hey, I am on a Dell and using IE.

Well to be fair, so it seems does PR.

 

Haha, it took me til the last sentence to realize that PR meant rat.

Come on dude, get an apple. You won't regret it. And you're not really using IE are you?

-Mike

 

4.2 million cameras don't worry you?

Sometimes it's good to be paranoid

""Talking" CCTV cameras that tell off people dropping litter or committing anti-social behaviour are to be extended to 20 areas across England."

That alone should be worrying... Talking cameras that comment on 'anti-social' behavior?

Wow

I also love how they are going to use children voices to make the cameras seem cute aww

 

Alright, no I am not using a Dell.
I was joking.
But I am using IE.
I tried using Opera and Firefox but they kept on freezing on me.
But, that was on my PC.
Seems a bit pointless to change when this is working perfectly well.
What advantages does the one you use have?
Tha ability to download 300000000000000000 widgets I will never ever use?

 

How are you enjoying minesweeper, Pfunk?

 

I dunno man.. I grew up with PCs and windows and I got very familiar with it all, but when I went to college I got a powerbook laptop and in over 3 years there has been nothing that has gone wrong. It still works just as it did when I got it, and everything just seems easier. More user friendly.. I dunno, everything just makes more sense. Easy to upgrade, easy to control and navigate. And I really don't use widgets at all. I use the dictionary one and the rest I thought I'd use but never do.

I'm not sure if I get it. I don't play it on my computer, or is this more metaphorical?

-Mike

 

Fair enough. I'm happy with mine. You're happy with yours.
Resolution to a conversation at last

 

Aristartle

Eh? He does NOT come to the defense of the elites. I don't think I've ever heard him defend any elite or person in a position of power, like *ever*.

Oh he is very loud in proclaiming that he is fighting against the elite, but things are not always as they seem with Mr Rat.

He used to be openly a right wing libertarian and proudly voted Libertarian and he still seems to have a very soft spot for right wing libertarians like Ron Paul and Alex Jones, and many of his supporters seem to be libertarians.

The problem was he found he was completely unable to defend right wing libertarian policies and it marked him out as a right winger who was pushing ideas that would assist the wealthy.

So he hit on a ruse, and began claiming very loudly that he was ‘neither of the right nor left’ and began the whole thing about there being no difference between left and right and hinting that he had discovered a third way.

The problem is that the ‘third’ way seemed to carry on being right wing, the kind of right wing that thinks the neo-cons are left wing and claims the Bush’s are socialists.

(Recently he’s seems to have gone off in a more social Darwinist direction it’s all a bit vague but you know he kinda wants like everyone to well like look to themselves and compete for resources and kinda leave the cities and live off the land. I think he thinks that will go down well with the audience here)

Just read his replies to me he doesn’t actually refute or address my accusations he just tells me I’m wrong (for someone that claims to want people to think for themselves he makes a lot of ‘I’m right your wrong’ statements) and throws mud in the hope of obscuring the fact he hasn’t said anything of any consequence.

**

I mean, yeah some of his 'less government is best' policy favourings do break down some of the principles of ensuring social justice and civil rights, but it's not because he's in favour of pro-wealthy and individualistic solutions to medical care for example or is harping to abolish social security.

As I’ve said after Rat stopped being openly libertarian he didn’t like to tell people what his political views were because whenever he did it was very obvious just how right wing those views were.

But while he does try to keep his political view secret there have been slips of the guard and from what is known virtually everything he has put forward as a course of action would favour the wealthy elites.

He has been pulled up on this many, many times and he never addresses it, he just does a lot of ranting that goes nowhere and answers nothing.

He’s been accused of helping the wealthy elites many times and he refuses to refute it, he claims it’s not true but he will not discuss the reasons why people think he does.

You see the main thrust of his stance seems be to get people to do nothing to oppose the wealthy and especially to do nothing left wing. Although he once said that what the wealthy feared was right wing libertarianism.

There is an old political adage that runs something like ‘if you can’t get them to vote for your side the next best thing is to get them to not vote at all’

**

I think you're looking too far beyond the trees on his posts in this thread, Balbus - but he hasn't really commented yet on the actual process of lobbying and/or lobbyist groups - hell, he hasn't even mentioned the word "lobby" in a post yet.

As I’ve said he is a lobbyist of sorts.


**

 

I'm always entertained when people call getting facts right a "tactic". Its not that hard really, I get mine right. The funny thing is Rat knows that when I call him out its because I already know he's wrong. But he still can't be bothered to check his facts and just repeats them.

Anyway I'm sure he's happy to have defenders who couldn't care less about facts.

Firefox 3.0 on Ubuntu.

 

Rat

Only once enough people have woken up can something be done by people coming together as sentient indivduals to do something concrete collectively.

And I’ll ask the same question that I’ve been asking for years and which you still haven’t replied to in any rational and coherent way.

Let use say the critical mass has been reached and you get your revolution, what then?

What concrete things would happen?

What kind of political system would replace the old order?

What policies would it pursue?

These people are not all-powerful, but they are as long as the people decide to do nothing.

But you are telling people to do nothing (except talk endlessly about conspiracies), and you are especially hot about them not doing anything left wing.

And since you have said that organising isn’t worth doing because any organisation is taken over by ‘the conspiracy’ and without some type of organising this supposed ‘critical mass’ has not reasonable possibility of happening aren’t you basically trying to get people to run around in circles doing nothing and achieving nothing?

 

Rat

Another thing I would like to address is the accusation that I am against socialistic government programs to "help" (enslave) those in need.

So how would you ‘free’ them?

Now most families cannot afford to live without both parents working lousy jobs, and in many cases they have to work two jobs just to make ends meet.

And your solution to this is what?

This is why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. It's because of the very same corporate-controlled big government intervention that you look at as being the solution to all the world's problems.

And your solution to this is what?

Once again, it's the perfect example of how the government creates the problems to justify the pre-planned "solution."

But what is your solution?

The fact is, the internationalists want a world socialistic welfare state, where everything is controlled by them with just the crumbs doled out to the public living at subsistence level as peasants. That is what they want and that is exactly what they're creating.

And your alternative system would be what?

Now do you understand my disdain of collectivistic big brother socialism? The same government that is pretending to be your daddy, giving you all the good things in life, is simultaneously sticking a knife in your jugular as you bleed all over the place.

And your alternative system of government would be what?

If the government truly worked for the people, there would be no need for any of that, because people would have jobs and enough money to live off of.

And what policies would you have in place to bring this about?

Go back 50 years and you will see there was little need for such programs because most people were able to afford things without having to rely on the government.

So you are basically saying that under your kind of government there would be no benefits system? Now according to the United States Census Bureau in 1960 over 20% of the US population lived below the poverty line.