9/11 conspiracy- Don't know what to think.

Wow. He's a nice guy now.

 

You looks please check out those sites, there the research is already DONE for you.

You guys, cut the fighting, we all have the same goal, find out how it really was and CLOSE all the conspirancy or false facts. Its not win or lose contest its what REALLY hapened, because even I am getting confused here. Both sides have clear arguments and different way to see things, but facts are facts so please fidn what they are .
Please read the sites and tell us what you think. THank you

 

I have been gone from this thread for ten pages or so.

Got back and read the last two, and haven't seen a single fact posted.

I have seen someone accused of being a secret agent.

Come on guys. I know this is a conspiracy forum on a hippie site. But fuck. :biggrin:

 

You don't believe there are intelligence agents on the internet? And if there are, there are bound to be some on a forum this big. Pointbreak/Pepik/Hiptastic seems a pretty likely candidate to me.

 

Zobra, please, dn't you think those intelegence agents have some stuff better to do? Liek solving the conspirancy how americans didn't to the moon one. I mean , seriously, do you think someone like him would waste time on a hippie forum?? We are a bunch of kids discussing a theory, its not like we ll come out later and PROVE IT TO THE WORLD! By means I knwo i wont be able to no matter how I ll try

Hiptastic is a person who ahs done ALOT of research for himself and is persuaded in his point of view. he sis not a SECRET FREAKEN AGENT, because y the hel;l would he waste time here?

 

There are obviously a lot of government agencies devoted to harvesting information from the internet.

The government does not employ counter intelligence people to throw off a bunch of kids by posting misinformation on a hippie conspiracy forum.

If they are, than our information community is a joke and I have detailed information that My friend Johnny will assassinate the president in 2 hours.

 

Interesting theory.

What is your evidence that the US specifically founded (ie, "put in place") Al Qaeda? Please do not respond with the fact that the CIA gave money and arms to some Mujahideen groups, as one of the biggest fallacies in understanding the history of modern militant Islam is to assume that they are one huge bloc, instead of scores of disparate groups operating with their own goals, methods, etc.

Just to set the record straight, the CIA decided to fund the Muj groups but absolutely required plausible deniability. Thus, they approached Pakistan, who agreed to disseminate the money and weapons for the CIA, but only on the condition that Pakistan would determine to whom the money was sent. This did mean that some of our weapons and money ended up in unsavory hands, eg, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin, due to Pakistan's preference for more radical groups. But there is no evidence that al Qaeda (which was largely funded by bin Laden's personal fortune, donations through Islamic "charities" to the Services Bureau (MaK) and, eventually, both legitimate and illicit businesses) was given money or materiel by the USG.

In fact, it is highly unlikely that the USG funded any foreign fighters in Afghanistan (besides perhaps some Pakistani volunteers, and even then only indirectly, through Pakistan). After all, al Qaeda at the time (qua the MaK) was only responsible for perhaps 100 "Afghan Arabs" (ie, Arab nationals who travelled to Afghanistan). There were many thousands of Afghan insurgents to arm and train without dealing with the more problematic foreign fighters.

In any event, it'd be great to see actual evidence that al Qaeda was founded by the US. The same meme refuses to die wrt the Taliban. Sadly, something tells me you and I won't be able to agree on what constitutes evidence tho, as you discount wikipedia as a source, but are likely all lover prisonplanet and the like ;-)

I'm a bit busy, so I might not be able to return until tomorrow or later.

Best,
haji

 

This whole forum is an intelligence operation. There are certainly agents all over the internet, misleading people. It's called disinformation, and it is very effective.

 

Don't take this the wrong way.

But I find that sad.

 

What part of it?

 

The part of that you are either exagerating or being paranoid, I'm telling you the agents have noooooo intrest of misleading a bunch of kids on a hippie forum.They do not care about kids like us

 

The part that screams 'delusions of grandeur'.

 

I am capable of reading the document, I did read it. You can't quote the relevant section because it doesn't exist. A simple CTRL+F showed me that what I was looking for - what you claimed is there - isn't there.

OK, I will.

But I did read it, that's why I know what it does and doesn't say. That's why I called you out on it.

This isn't some complex, nuanced argument open to interpretation. The only reference to Afghanistan in the whole document says nothing about invading and "standardising" Afghanistan. It simply does not say what you claim it does. All you would have to do was say "it says so on page xx" and the debate would be over. But it isn't there.

You said "never". Since your comment was a personal attack anyway, I don't see why you deserve any slack here.

Except when I do? Really, I'm intersted in politics. Do I need a permit for that? Do I need your permission? Maybe I talk about other things with real life friends, and save politics for the internet?

Again, you are just repeating what Rat tells you to say. Remember how you came out with this big "scoop" that I did politics under the same user name on different forums? You said that because that's what Rat told you. But who cares? How is that scandalous?

Are you a real person? Is anyone else here? I've never demanded that anyone reveal personal details, and you're the first one to demand it of me. What do you want, my address? A photo? Funny how the conspiracy forum is the place where people demand you reveal personal details.

Says you. How would you know?

Says who? How would you know?

All you do is attack people who disagree with you and call them cointelpro. You must be so proud.

All the time. I really don't get what your problem is here.

I disagree with people that I disagree with, not with everybody about everything. What is it that you find suspicious about that? Keep in mind my views are not in line with the majority here, so obviously I'm not going to join the chorus every time.

As I said, these claims were character assasination, they are not related to the debate. I shouldn't have to respond to them at all, let alone with some kind of kid gloves. They were wrong so I called them lies.

LOL! This is just bizarre. You DID NOT back up what you said. Where's the Pentagon's air defences?

But I did read it, what you claimed was in there wasn't there. How is that "backing up what you say"?

Its not a lie, its as true as it gets. What you claimed was in there wasn't there. This is a simple fact. I could claim the moon is made of cheese and link to a website about migratory patterns of Flamingos and claim I "backed up what I said", that's about what you've done here.

This isn't complicated. If the document said what it did, you'd just show me where instead of giving me the run around. I am not using 'cointelpro tactics' here, I am just pointing out that your statement was wrong. You are the one that insists on digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole rather than admit the obvious. Its not like I'm going to make some big deal out of it, I'd rather move on.

That's why Rat warned you about me. Not because I'm cointelpro, but because I catch him lying all the time, he doesn't like it.

 

Rat didn't warn me about you. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about -- you state it as a fact that I know him personally and that we've talked about you, when you know nothing of the kind.

As far as the document goes, did you actually read it, or just CTRL+F it? Because, to be honest, one must actually read it in order to get the gist of what it's saying, not just search through it. It's been a long time since I read it, and I had remembered some of the statements being less ambiguous than they are on rereading it. However, I think that if one reads the entire document, the point behind it will be pretty evident.

Tell me, did you really read all 90 pages just to prove me wrong?

 

Hi gang, I was away from this thread for a while.
Nice to see we have continued to rip the conspiracy theories to shreads.

This moron above continues to spew his venom.

Get over yourself, you are not important, you are one of 6 billion people. Sad, sad moron.

 

I know I'm not important. What is it that seems to make you think that people who disagree with you are egomaniacs? I've never tried to make myself seem smarter or better than anyone else here in any way. If anyone feels that I have, I apologize. I'm just here to discuss what I feel to be the truth. There's no ego trip involved.

 

First of all he did (many of the things you accuse me of are obviously things Rat told you, don't bullshit me), secondly I don't really care. If you want use personal attacks on me, don't be a whiner too, that's just too much.

WTF. It does not say ANYTHING about invading and standardising Afghanistan. It simply does not. That is the point. You used a fake quote, I called you out on it, here we are.

Excuse me, you were the one insulting me for not knowing how to use CTRL+F, now I'm supposed to read 90 page documents searching for things you claim are there when its quite obvious they aren't and you are just wasting my time?

 

It talks about the invasion and standardization of the entire region. Like I said, if you read the entire thing, it's quite clear what they're talking about.

But whatever, man. I don't want to argue with you. You think you're right, I think I'm right. So let's just leave it at that and stop with all the bullshit.

 

The 'this forum is an intelligence operation bit'. It's a delusion of grandeur.

This place has no intelligence value.

Save for the drug chemistry forum, which is investigated I'm sure.

 

This is one of the largest alternative discussion boards on the internet. It has plenty of intelligence value.

And I don't get this "delusions of grandeur" shit. I have no delusions of grandeur. I'm just a guy talking on a forum. No one person is important enough to warrant that kind of thing. But when you have a community of over 100,000 members, I think it's foolish not to expect intelligence agents to be around. With that many people, there are plenty of reasons for it.