So I own my home and behind me about 20 feet is a decent sized creek (crick? ) I'm thinking alot lately about a water wheel. How freaking killer it would be to make my own energy. Anyone know much about it?
This is something I looked deeply into as part of some solar/water projects in Haiti. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202898 "decent sized creek" means different things to different people. Could you give more details like width, depth, flow rate, is the flow year round or just seasonal? And most important, what is the lay of the land, flat, slight hill, steep hill, etc.? Could you build a small dam? This determines what is called "head". Here's some sites for more info: This one is so old it should be thought of as background info: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Rene...d-Part-III-A-New-Era-in-Home-Owner-Hydro.aspx What you probably are looking at is called "Micro Hydro Power". Check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_hydro More info: http://www.microhydropower.net/directory/manufacturers.php http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Hydro/hydro.htm Peace, poor_old_dad
Ah, thanks you all the links! Ill try to take some pics in the morning. There is a dam in place and there once... maybe 20 years ago was a water wheel. Dam would need work and such tho.
I know somebody who has "created" there own water flow and electricity from a still dam, it was based on the principle of the aquafier system the romans used for getting water up hills, the water was taken up hill in mini ponds then allowed to flow back to the dam in a copper pipe, a micro hydro generator wheel is placed on the pipe outlet. It is a constant strong gravity fed water flow that supplies electricity 24/7. and is self perpetuating ( no need for a solar pump etc) though this is a good idea if you dont want to dig mini ponds. All her appliances are run on 12v such is found in RV caravans and trailers, though this is basically a small refridgerator, small TV, radio etc. there is not a lot of high power draining devices that she uses. A blend of old and new technology, that ensures a constant high pressure water flow to turn the water wheel without having to rely on seasonal creek flow.
Ok so. Took some pics today. Heres my creek : So you can see theres already a little dam built. I already know this wouldn't be enough but the water is coming down to me off a pretty big hill so the potential to back it up is there. After posting about this I found this laying around :O Yes, thats a pvc water wheel, pretty neat huh? My father says my gramps used it over 2 years. Successfully. I dunno lol.
Check this site out. http://www.microhydropower.com/ The stream engine is an amazing little thing if you have to make a run of pipe to supply it. If you have somewhere you could get a straight 10 foot drop, then the LH1000 would be the way to go. If however you wish to build something on your own, you are better off with the waterwheel idea.... Tom
same topic different place and lay of the land... Have about 1/2 a.pond with about a 35 ft. drop to a part time stream (Not year round..and no native fish) about 5>7 springs depending on how dry the year...lay of land allows about 4> 5 bunker damns to back up water from springs and ram pump up tp pond....figured a 12>18 in. pipe vertical of standing water fed from the pond with a pee valve for a pendelton wheel (water turbine)...should not be loosing much water and that will go into a bunker damn to be pumped back up (last bunker would have to have a fuel powered pump (?) to get most of it back up to high ground pond....some water would still feed the wetlands down from the small plateau the hollw rests in)....any one with actual practical knowledge that might tell me whether this might not work...figure it should be more than enough for community and even sellable...to that end I would become part of an electric co-op which would mean that I would be paid what I pay per K/H....might be some income for community....feed back ? ? come back POD and chronicTom....or anyone else who may know or know hwere to direct that may know....course if I get off my ass I imagine Ithaca and the co-operative extension might have some knowledge to share there.... Yes ...No ...? ok ....your turn...passes the stick to shut up pbl (no not peanut butter....Peace Blessings and love) Namaste
Hey Oldwolf. If there are no fish in the pond, then I would block off the stream completely, and funnel to outlet through the lh1000, although you have triple the head you would need for it, it would allow you to put it that much lower and have that much larger of a resevoir. Either that, or as I said to Mel, if you want to build a homemade setup go with a waterwheel... for you, you could do an overhead flow one, which will give you more power to gear to your genny.. Look here; http://www.craftskills.biz/hydro-cameroon.htm http://www.waterwheelfactory.com/samplepage.htm http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Hydro/hydro.htm (general info and links) Something else you should look into oldwolf are hydraulic ram pumps; http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/equip/ram.htm You can use one (or more) to fill a resevoir closer to you point of usage and have it power a small genny as sandshoe was talking about For Mel, look at this one... http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_experiments_waterwheel.html
Namaste Oldwolf, my friend, Yes, (generally speaking) excess power generated can be sold to the co-op. You should call them to double check, but I think it's a federal law that they have to buy it. Of course, I don't know if it'd be enough to be an income source, but hell, if you can just break even that'd be pretty good. Some folks I've known & know of use the electric co-op or company in place of the batteries that are in almost all home brewed power systems. that alone saves a pile, large pile, of $$$$. Another thing I've seen done is to use hydro in the more water flow/less sunny season and to use solar cell panels in the less water flow/ more sunny season. Some of the big costs of a solar power home set up are getting enough panels to generate enough power in the winter (shorter days, less intense sun) plus the cost of batteries. A combination of hydro / solar cell / bank electricity with the co-op can go a long way toward cost justification. Big Amen to Mr.ChronicTom's ram pump idea and link. When I first moved to this area and was still setting up the farm & paying off the land, etc., I worked part time at a local independent hardware store. Some of the "Old Timers" and some of the younger Old Timers, still used and/or wanted to go back to the ram pumps. Anyway, we used the instructions from Clemson and built a pump. It worked so well & was so very cheap & easy to build that we soon built several others. Far as I know, they're all still in constant use. Peace, eace: poor_old_dad
Sorry about that, I should have kept reading. Here's the thing. If you make your own power and want to put it back into the grid, you need an intertie inverter. Basically, it stops you from putting power into the grid if it doesn't detect power coming from it. It's purpose is to stop you from electrocuting electrical company employees. Now perhaps you have something different set up for co-ops down there. Which brings you back to talking to your local people and finding out. You should also consider now just how to do it, but also IF you should. The main benefit to generating your own power is to eliminate the need to be part of the grid. Worrying about what to do with excess power, before setting yourself up to cover your own is jumping the gun. Things are odd depending where you are... I'll give you an example, for us here (ontario canada), they started reciprocal billing. Which in theory means they buy any power we can produce for the same as we buy power from them. Unfortunately, they managed to make sure they screwed us, before this was set up. In the lead up to that, they divided the publicv utility company here into three seperate ones, one that makes the power, one that transmits it and one that looks after the hardware end of it. So although they will pay us the same as we pay them for electricity, they (through the transmission company), charge us for power transmission for the power we buy, and don't pay that in return for ours. On top of that, they took the old debt from the public company and divided it over the new ones, which then pass it on to the consumer. If we shut the power off for a month here, it would still cost us to the tune of 30-50$ a month, with ZERO power usage. That same charge would apply if we were producing excess monthly power. Add in the cost of having an Intertie inverter, and the whole thing becomes a waste of time. Personally, I will skip that whole aspect. We won't be connected to the electrical grid, to either use or supply it.
yah...do know about ram pumps, I also know that the pressure from a large pipe going down to the valve used to move the pelton wheel with a large fall of (not exactly measured but carpentry skills say about 100+ ft.) would not demand a large flow though utilizing many ram pumps to pump back from the bunker dams below back to the high pond (to be enlarged to 15 ft deep and a bit over 1 a.)should be able to handle a large gpm flow....looking at the systems available I tend toward a 100kw+ plant...hence the idea that there will be significant extra power that must have the same cycle patterns as the existing electric utility company feeding you that you are selling excess power to. And yes power companies must buy produced electric as long as it is compatible but a co-op member here in N.Y.S would be compensated at the same rate they pay pkh. whereas the public utility only pays at the going rate they pay for bulk power (down around 2>3cents /kh0 which makes selling to public utility unfeasible to return investment and make "profit". I will probably buy the parts and make my own system...it is fairly logical and straightforward...though you must find less expensive suppliers than usually found on the "normal" public market. they also have incentive (large ones) for making green energy..perhaps the system could end up being "free" and for that you do have to feed the existing grid system. Sorry to blindside you all a bit...maybe I have done a bit more research than I let one....buying a completed system is pricey but putting 1 together can be done for relative cheap, and would be more easily expandable. I expect to use 4 valves running the pelton, the size of the pelton wheel will depend upon the pressure...which there are tables for. Will be using belt drives from the wheel, driving generator heads (farm style) which can be picked up relatively cheaply and make it easily expandable to as high as the force generated by the pelton wheel will allow, which depends upon the pressure input from the water mass which in turn is calculated by the mass (pipe circumference) and height. This is not something I have studied enough in depth to be able to say what exactly I will need and what the best combinations to make the most cost effective and productive set up; but again the information is fairly accessible and logical and open to far greater (reasonably priced...esp with the existing incentives) production than most would think. Just have to consult the people who would Know and the proper tables and keep that open mind that we tinkers and make do people have learned to inculcate. Have most of the equipment needed ...I figure the greatest expense will be the piping. thank you for you input and links have at it...keep the mind open ....we can do much more than we were told. Blessings Namaste
K, well a system that size is out of my experience. For me, I focused on reducing our needs and then meeting them. The idea of setting up a system big enough to specifically feed the grid and people who do nothing to reduce their waste of power would haunt me until I died. If you were talking about a central system to feed a community of people who all worked towards reduction of power, then I could see it. Even in a case like that though, I would look for a solution that could be built from scratch and be maintained with local resources. One of those links I sent you was to a waterwheel with a home built generator mounted to it. I would look to something like that, that you could size to your specific situation both in terms of harvesting the hydro power and in terms of converting it to electricity. As for blindsiding anyone.. I would much rather talk to people who knew more then they said, then those who say more then they know...
Lot's of people say water power is like a gold mine - it works 24/7 unlike solar, and unlike the wind it (usually) doesn't have days off. At least that's the theory... it seems to be the most fiddly of the 3 main systems, solar wind and hydro. Solar you just plug in and go, and it's what I've been using even though it was my last choice. It's also set to get a lot cheaper when the 3rd generation solar technology arrives for the consumer. Wind involves a lot of faffing about with masts, but generally once it's up it's okay except for maintenance replacing bearings and so on. Hydro power - as you may have seen from some of these responses is a bit of a science in itself. You need to measure your streams flow and head (when it's in average conditions - which may mean waiting a few months). Then spec the correct generator from these figures. Then you have to channel the water. And a big thing that put me off was ensuring the thing doesn't become blocked... "Judy of the Woods" had a "waterbaby" I think and it lasted about 3 hours before it became blocked. I recall something about building a sequence of "filters" which only need cleaning out every few days or so. But I'm sure the potential is there if you make the effort! Don't be put off, you could maybe just have fund with getting the PVC pipe thing up and running again for kicks. In some ways I'm quite jealous.
Well, if this had been a discussion of which we thought was a better way to go, I would have said wind, but that is a personal thing related to location for me. If I had access to a year round source of running water, I would definitely use it though. As for solar, except for passive solar uses, or specific purposes, it will have to get a lot cheaper for it to become a viable alternative here... for those who live in sunny areas of the world, that may be different though.. As for playing with it, I think if a person has the space to do it, they should give all options a try, even if you only make enough power to light a few accent lights, its power you make yourself... On that note, go grab a couple of bicycle generators for the headlamps... they are perfect for experimenting with different designs
