War is necessary, no?

How can that be when you've just admitted we're not getting the information we need? The more misinformation or 'incomplete' information we're fed the more your argument loses water.

Based on this "age of information" many Americans rallied for the attack on Iraq. After we found out the information was bad, we got pissed. Just not pissed enough to demand that the false pretenses be used as an argument for immediate withdrawl. We were told, "we're past the point of no return. If we want to be done you have to let us finish". And we said, "ok. Just make it quick".

And cost effectiveness as an argument? I'm dissapointed in that one, Lode. We spend $5,000 a second in Iraq. Money is of no concern when you plan to forcefull remove plenty of funds and assets from others in the process.

 

Mak it took you THIS long to type that out? man next time just copy and paste.

 

Copy and paste? Wtf?:huh:

 

Huh? I never said anything about cost effectiveness.

The incompletness of the information coming from Iraq proves me point, rather than disproves it. I'm arguing with more information war will either become impossible, or will become complete.

These are long term ends, not look at this one war with limited information coming out. You're putting words in my mouth, and there all the wrong ones.

 

I wouldnt even consider the war in iraq a war. Its more of a conflict people take hobby in or discust to.

 

I believe you did mention it in different terminology.

I have put no words in your mouth. I may have misinterpreted them, but surely did not create them on my own. Quality and quantity are not directly proportionate by any means. Especially in relation to media provided information. That same information is how this *problem*(war, conflict, hostile take over) was started.

In fact, in terms of information, quality and quantity are almost inversely proportionate(the more the quantity the lower the quality). There's so much contrasting information provided at times it makes it hard to form a valid, educated opinion**. What says you?

Edit: ** - Which also leads to a difficulty in determining what side you choose(pro or anti war) and makes those who do pick a side less sure of their choice. Less certainty in thought means less action taken.

 

"War is necessary" is also rhetoric, but I agree... I'm not giving you enough. I'll get back to this thread when I'm in the mood to discuss further.

 

Costly after nuclear war meaning in terms of loss of life compared to fiscal costs. increased technological power and increased sizes of military make large wars much more costly on the terms of lives lost.

Look at China. Do you think a war with China's inevitable? It would have been if it weren't for our increasing trade relations with them, and the growing media exposure which makes it hard to cast a red menace shadow about them.

You think it was harder today to make a descion reguarding the Iraq war then say it was in 1898 when all the media told you was the Spanish had attacked our ships and we needed to go to war?

I knew a whole fuck of a lot of people against Iraq before it ever started. Far more then against Vietnam when it started, and this was 2 years after 9/11.

 

i think words would save far more lives.

 

I digress.

The trade relations with them are a joke, and we're eating shit more and more each day as a result of unbalanced import:export ratios. That war is still coming. You think America will sit by and watch China grow wealthy and stronger without the green monster rearing its head? Hardly. It was a strategic move, if you ask me, and not much more than that.

The massive waves of information have made a difference, but not for the better. Some people are too wrapped up in the conspiracies to care about the war, and I know you know some of these people. People who talk all day about whether or not the gov was behind 9/11 but rarely stop to talk about the duping that led to this current invasion.

You knew a bunch of people who were against Iraq. We all did. I also knew plenty of people that felt Iraq was justified or atleast for the good of the many. Of the people who were against it how many have taken an active stance, as opposed to an "armchair quarterback" stance?

In the days of Vietnam people were much more active in their anti war protesting than they are today and the difference wasn't the amount of available information, but the difference in simplicity and quality of the information provided. It was much easier to understand the pointlessness and waste of energy. This "age of information" is just as much an age of overwhelming confusion for the masses. On top of the overloads of conflicting reports there are 10x more distractions than ever before. How can you be worried about Iraq when you're kept busy on the thought of terrorist attacks. How can you be worred about Iraq when everybody is busy verbally beating Clinton and McCain to death over the proposed 'gas tax holiday'?

The list goes on. . . You know what they say about "too much of a good thing".

 

I disagree with both things you said there.

 

name one good thing.

 

So you think tensions with China are over and not just on a hyatus?

Also, on what basis do you disagree with my assessment of information being utterly problematic?

 

Good is subjective. Point is that without moderation most things become increasingly problematic.

 

well duh. too much of anything will do something. but i dont see what good comes from war.

 

You have to follow closely. The "good thing" was a reference to information. Which is a good thing. Too much information creates mucho problems.

 

ahh i see. but to answer the original question, no i do not think war is necessary.

 

On what grounds could you eliminate war without inciting utter chaos(which would inevitably lead to more, smaller wars.)

 

you couldn't eliminate it really. just sort of work out the dispute through other ways besides fighting. war of words.

 

So if you can't eliminate the chaos that leads to war, without first having a war, it would seem some war is necessary to prevent further problems, no?