Gun Control Works Every Time It's Tried!

GUN CONTROL WORKS EVERY TIME IT'S TRIED!

Don't think for an second that this can't happen here in America!



In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.











From 1929 to
1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves,
were rounded up and exterminated.















In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.











5
million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.















Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a
total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves
were rounded up and exterminated.

 

China established gun control in 1935.











From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
and exterminated.















Guatemala established gun control in 1964.











From 1964 to 1981,
100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend them selves , were rounded
up and exterminated.















Uganda established gun control in 1970.











From 1971 to 1979,
300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956.











From 1975 to 1977, one
million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
and exterminated.















Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
because of gun control: 56 million.

 

It has now been a while since gun owners in Australia were
forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed
by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more
than $500 million dollars.











The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.











2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.











6 percent

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up
300 percent.











Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in,
the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease
in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward
in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their
prey is unarmed.













There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults
of the ELDERLY.











Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how
public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense
was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns.











The
Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.













You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminating this information.













Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and,
yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.













Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind
them of this history lesson.













With guns, we are 'citizens'.












Without them, we are 'subjects'.













During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because
they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control
message to all of your friends.
















STOP THE NATIONAL I. D.

STOP THE NORTH AMERICAN UNION!

BECOME A LIBERTARIAN - STAND FOR SOMETHING!

TOM CRYER - LAWYER WHO BEAT THE IRS (Watch all 4 Videos)

 

good thread

 

Ghandi once said that one of Britain's greatest crimes was taking away the guns of the Indian peoples. While I can understand certain regulations in regards to firearms - outright bans on handguns like the idiots in DC have enacted are puro loco.

 

Scholar

When you cut and paste something please point out where it came from.

Your contribution is all over the web some claim it to be from an article in Agri-news but I can’t seem to be able to find it’s original source. I think it is just another chain letter similar one posted earlier on the forum (see below), in other words propaganda.

And like all propaganda it is about spreading the ‘word’ not about trying to spread light on a complex issue.

Now the next bit about Australia is the well known chain letter supposedly posted by a certain ed chenel back in 1998 or so. Again it has appear all over the web since.

Urban myths
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
This chain uses questionable statistics to "prove" that recent gun control legislation in Australia has actually increased crime there. It is presented as a warning to those in the United States and other countries who are pushing gun control like those in Australia. http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/australiaguns.html
Again it is propaganda and rather dubious at that, dubious source, dubiously presented.


**

Anyway Scholar I’d be surprised if you are truly willing to discuss the issues raised in anything like an honest and open way, but It’d make my very happy if you could.

But first could you read this - ‘Can guns save you from suppression?’ http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253937

It shows how the armed American citizenry have been quiet happy to accept or assist in suppression, of even is own fellow citizens.


**

 

The argument scholar makes on gun murders increasing is completely untrue.

The last major report on gun murders in Australia covered stats through to 2003.

The graph is available here: http://www.aic.gov.au/research/homicide/stats/

You will notice that since 1996 gun murders have fallen to their lowest levels since 1915.

You will also notice on another graph on the same page that homicide in Australia has fallen between 1990 and the end of the financial year starting 2006. (Ending 2007)

Here is some further data showing that kidnapping and attempted murder has remained at a constant trend of growth since 1993:

http://www.aic.gov.au/research/homicide/stats/

If gun control had been caused a spike in violent crime, we would expect the trend line to spike upwards around the 1997 mark, but this graph shows no spike and in fact, a slight overall decrease in attempted murders. At worst it could be argued that gun control didnt help cut violent crime rates, but it certainly did not contribute.

This graph may perhaps demonstrate the supposed increase in gun crime of 300% in Victoria, around 2000-2001.

http://www.aic.gov.au/topics/violence/robbery/stats/

It's worth noting that during this time gang violence in Melbourne reached it's peak with a large number of armed robberies happening.

However, let's also point out that at that time, there was no control on knives and swords in this country, and the overwhelming number of armed robberies are not carried out with guns, but with swords, AND after restrictions were brought in on blades, the rate dropped again.

Finally on this point, if someone was going to argue that gun control has caused more crime in Australia, they'd have a very tough time doing so, because the immediate increases in armed robbery after 1996 stop in 2001 and the rate begins to DROP again.

If gun control had caused crime to spiral out of control, you would expect that the rate would still be continuing upwards. Aside from the end of the graph, it isnt, therefore giving no correlation between the gun control laws and crime rate.

This last graph shows that illegal entry to a property with intent to commit a crime (whether it be robbery, murder or assault) has dropped since 2001.

http://www.aic.gov.au/topics/property/stats/uewi.html

So, from this, if we were going to infer anything, it could be that since guns have been taken out of the home, less people are trying to get into our homes, since 2001.

And, if not that, then at the very least, we see, that yet again, crime is not spiralling out of control over here.

Finally, the most recent crime statistics came from the state of NSW for 2007 were released recently and showed the following:

- Property crime such as robbery INCLUDING violent armed robbery (and car jacking) is at record low levels.

- Car theft is up.

- Violent assaults are up, HOWEVER, these assaults are mainly up as a result of increased alcohol related violence such as punch ups at the pub. (And I dont know about you, but I dont want people carrying loaded guns around places that sell alcohol).

This is a DIRECT quote from the report:

Offences where there was no upward or downward trend
There was no statistically significant upward or downward trend in the monthly numbers of recorded criminal
incidents for the following offences:
• murder (number of victims, not incidents)
• assault - domestic violence related
• assault - non-domestic violence related
• sexual assault
• indecent assault, act of indecency and other sexual offences
• robbery without a weapon
• robbery with a firearm
• break and enter - dwelling
• steal from retail store
• steal from dwelling
• steal from person
• fraud
• malicious damage to property

And you can view the report that this is from, here: http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/RCS07.pdf/$file/RCS07.pdf

OR, for just a brief rundown on crime rates over time in NSW (The most populated state in Australia, and therefore the best basis), you can look here to see graphs of what I just said: http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/rcs07_trend_property_crime.pdf/$file/rcs07_trend_property_crime.pdf

Or if browsing a statistical information bureau of some unremarkable government appeals to you, go here: http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/ and have a look at the links on the front page.

So......I know a whole bunch of graphs arent as exciting as a chain email and rhetoric about "freedom" and the like, but....hey, that's probably because they're based in actual fact.

 

Any response from SpreadneckGA, mental hammer or scholar warrior?

 

I don't know much about Australia's laws or culture, so I don't have much to say. I believe in reasonable gun regulation, but would never support outright bans on firearms - it simply doesn't work in my country, the USofA. The places out here that have outright bans also tend to have the highest crime rates. People should have the right to defend themselves. Even more absurd is that one of Chicago's mayors was jailed after he used a pistol to defend his family against an armed robbery.

 

actually, I've got a question for scholar warrior - other than the stupid idea to use RDIF in our upcoming national ID system, what's the big problem with a national ID?

 

Sure, i don't agree at all with taking someones right away to own a gun. Cars kill more people than guns. I don't see how taking guns away from legal law abiding citizens will help, leaving only guns obtained illegally and the gov't to have them.

I don't see how you have the gaul to tell someone else what you think they should or should not have based on your own skewed view. I don't need the gov't to be my Mommy.

 

Spread

Trouble is that your post just seems to be a string of slogans, and as i've pointed out several times in discussions on this issue slogans are not rational arguments they are what people use when they don’t have rational arguments.

 

Rational argument is in the US, the law allows people the right to own a gun. Prohibition of anything creates a black market that will trump the one you have now.

The same weak rational to take guns away has been used successfully to take away other rights and i personally do not agree with it.

Like i stated, i don't need nor depend on the mommy gov't nor yourself to tell me how to life my life. I have never committed a gun crime, so because some idiot, and statistically speaking most likely with an illegally obtained firearm, has committed a crime, you want to take mine away?

 

I can't believe that anybody would be against letting people get guns. in the end, it comes down to protection; we have a right to protect ourselves against anything, even the government.
I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.

 

I'm not against guns. I just don't understand why, if the case for guns is so great, do people lie about it? I mean these posts were complete propaganda and lies, yet everyone chimes in to support them. When it is shown beyond a doubt that they were utter crap, nobody blinks. Its like "Oh yeah, we got lied to, but we don't mind because it was what we wanted to hear".

 

Agreed. I am not up on Australia either. Forgive me, please, if I spread any misinformation.

I have read similar reports of the results of gun control elsewhere, and seeing as the info. on Australia seemed in accord with the other places it happened and I saw no need to question it. Please forgive this oversight on my part, assuming that you are correct that I passed erroneous information.

Regardless of all of that, our Founding Fathers were wise to "guarantee" the right to bear arms, in that it is the last defense against tyranny. We currently face tyranny on a scale grander than ever previously before, at least since the times of Atlantis, perhaps.

I have said it many times since my youth, and I have yet to find any example that would suggest that I retract this statement: "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them." You may suggest that besides outlaws, the government would also have them. I would respond that the government is possessed of outlaws. There is abundant evidence to back these statements up.

~~~

Blessings to all, I agree with the desire for Peace, but I understand that we live in duality, and violence and peace depend on one another for definition.

I wish absolute Bliss for all, which translates to no-thing.

Namaste'

P.S. Google Ron Paul! Re-Instate the U. S. Constitution! (why not? since you and I are still living out here in the periphery of duality)

 

The Federal Government should only provide minimal services to the People. The way our country, "The United States of America", was set up was for the authority to be strongest at the local and state level.

Consider the title "The United States of America." They didn't call it the Federal Government of America, or the Federal Union of America, or some other similar something. The emphasis was on the individual states.

At this point, we already live in the shadow of a fascist central government that is bent on taking more and more power from the People! Any further surrender of Liberty is a Crime against our own Constitution.

This is why the National ID is wrong.

 

I take note of your words with respect.

I apologise for not mentioning my source. It was a post from a myspace friend. I do not recall now who it was. 'sorry.

Can guns save us? I don't know, and I hope I never have to find out. Personally, I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I will defend my personal liberty against anyone.

As for discussing honestly, etc. Please do not judge me yet. You have barely met me.

Peace

 

Gosh, a guns thread that is sane and polite!

Personally, I feel very strongly that guns should be legal, just for basic defense of self, home, and family. Rifles and shotguns, that is.

I'm not so sure about handguns. Because they're so easily concealed, the primary advantage of a handgun is that it gives an advantage to the person who goes to attack someone else's home, while offering little additional advantage when used honestly as a defensive weapon.

Personally, if I was dictator (Yes I would SUCK at it), I'd almost consider banning toy guns. Think about it. Hand any three year old child a toy gun and they'll point it at you, yell BANG, and laugh. That suggests a huge problem.