The Day of Silence: The Right Idea for the Wrong Reason

Americans seem to think that gays should be thanking them for not beating them to death. Half of them think wanting the right to get married is somehow unreasonable. You shouldn't accept tokenistic courtesies as if they are major concessions. America, for all it's awesomeness, is still a long way behind a lot of the world in terms of equal rights.

 

Interesting but because you're in England, you're the first guy I've heard this from. In reality gays in America don't think about thanking hetero Americans for not beating them. It hasn't cross their minds. They don't have to thank them. Thing about America is this cushioning factor provided by the multi ethnic groups. There are also lots of radical groups here. There is this safety net in America, and this is what I was pointing at on my previous post. Gays in America are also powerful politically speaking considering our number is very small compared to heteros. Sad to say that gays in America are also divided.

Agree that a gay person shouldn't accept tokenistic courtesies........... but you work with what you have in front of you and then move up. It's also easier said than done when the majority of the people don't give you enough rope to pull things around. America is a very political and heterosexual country and money talks very loudly.

Yeah but America is also a huge and extreme, rich and spoiled country. When it comes to big money, equal rights get twisted. It's a different form compared to equal rights in tiny, middle of the road, European countries with mostly similar race. No one should compare multi-racial America to a puny country. Have you been in America? It's dizzyingly huge. Everyone tries to be the diva.

 

Dude, we have that hear, but y'all still have it worse.

Oh I know. I knew a guy a few years back who was trying to be a bit militant, had a go at this gay guy's friends for being homophobic. It was bad, they were basically just ripping on him the way groups of guys do amongst themselves, but my friend decided that, because he was gay, it could only be homophobic... OK, I'm not saying that it's opposites day, compliments are insults, insults are compliments. But it's all about the intent. I'm concerned sometimes that people have been told when they should be offended, rather than being trusted to use their own judgment. Some people would be appalled by the way me and my close friends talk to each other. But when someone's having to try so hard to fake tolerance, it's just painful.

You're actually the third person this week to insist that America is OOOOO so multicultural that no-one else could possibly understand how awesome it is there. Do you know anything about my country? I know that bits of America are very multi-cultural, and I also know that great big chunks of it are basically 99% white.

Also, Britain has, like, a fifth of your population, in about 1/1000th of the space. It's small, but I'd hardly say tiny.

 

I've been to your country many times, but to fairly know a country you have to live there for a long time. One of my best friends is of the British aristocracy.....................

Well if you've never been to America and live here, you'll never find out how really "awesome" it is. Reading about it and watching it on tv won't do it. You have to live here for at least thirty years to get a tiny clue of it. I wouldn't use "awesome" to describe the American experience to tell you the truth. There is no word for it. How could there be? So it is ignorant to say that no-one else could possibly understand how awesome it is here. I never mentioned such a statement. Only two people told you how awesome it is here. Live here and find out for yourself. Anyhoo it's the main reason why many people from all around the world kill and exploit others to live here. Britain is tiny. It's one of the reasons why I've been avoiding a couple of invites to revisit England. Like San Francisco, I feel like I'm being strangled there. Bad memories are also to blame. The fog, chill, rain, dampness, mildew, foot fungus, jock itch in the summer.........I'll pass for now.

I missed that one then because the Primaries didn't show one single state in America with a 99% white inhabitants and I've only lived here roughly all my life. So which great big chunks are you talking about?

Worse compared to England? That I agree with you because your country provides all the legal consequences of marriage to gays. Is America the worst industrialized country to live in for gays? No....... and I wouldn't trade this land for any other nation. Life is partly a give and take and America, considering the rest, is a wonderland among nations. I don't believe in formalized marriage or getting compensated for my relationship anyway. Good lordie! Heteros are pathetic that way. It's like saying............ Oh I'll marry him/her judge if I get money out of it. Sick. Gross. Vomit. It's the same thing for heteros begging for money for their children. They love to fuck but they want to get compensated for it. Prostitution? Baby piggy bank?

 

It's not Paul Burrell is it?

What about, like, talking to people who live there? You can probably get an idea of what living in Northampton is like just by talking to people who've lived there. It's pretty much exactly what you'd expect.

Not if it's not awesome, thanks.

Yeah, living in Britain I'd have no idea about that Seriously dude, people fucking flock here because we're so lax on immigration. It's kinda funny: most people going to America are going there for work.

Meh, I wouldn't recommend that place unless you plan to break a lot of bones in public.

Oi vey. Bits of it are, okay? I base it on Wikipedia. It matters not; your multi-culturalism isn't unique, is all I'm saying. You still have areas with hardly any non-whites in them.

Yyyyyeeeeeah, but on the flipside of that disgusting stuff, you've got gay couples who've lived together for 50 years and end up having legal issues over inheritance and stuff because they're not legally able to marry. I don't ever plan to get married either, but I get that it's important that I am able to do so.

I'm feeling like we've digressed a bit here.

 

You shouldn't pay too much attention to wiki wiki wiki wiki. I never said that our multi-cultural nation is unique. When you say unique, it means that it's the only country that has this quality. America is rare compared to most countries. Rare is an evasive word and it certainly got your attention.

Or vise versa. It all works out evenly.

My friend can be hateful on certain occasions but not extreme enough to be shot for it. He's also cuter than the dorky you mentioned.

Nobody wants to move to another country if he or she could help it. My ancestors move to America out of necessity for political and religious freedom. Some of my family members gave their lives for us to call ourselves Americans. To deserve to call ourselves Americans. America is my heaven on earth. Everyone has the right to voice out their issues in America, which is a major plus in my book. Politically correct or hate-filled propaganda is go in America. The Day of Silence is but one of the many. Depending on who you talk to, it is a negative or a positive thing. It's all American. The price of freedom of speech. A point for you btw.......I also agree that fake tolerance is painful, but I have to be political to get what I want in this world. It's all a give and take. I weigh things. The most important is the first thing on my mind. At all cost.

 

It's great if there's a voice in between the two extremes. That seems to be a universal problem, because those who aren't militantly pro- or anti-homo, for example, probably don't form protest groups or set up public access things to promote their indifference. Freedom of speech as great if the majority is represented, rather than the belligerent portion of the population calling the shots.

Right. All I meant really is that you're not unique, and among your country's peers (i.e. countries of similar standing on the world stage, similar age and population, etc.) you're not that multicultural. It hardly matters though.

 

I did say everyone......., including silly, forgettable, middle of the road, boring issues. We have Ralph Nader here for goodness' sake! The majority group doesn't need to express themselves. They just do it behind our backs. Next thing you know, the "fruit" of their dissatisfaction is a law. Just kidding........I think......, not? It happened before during WWII. Also, McCarthyism anyone? How about segregation and slavery? If gays don't stay on top of things..............history tells us that our gayness station in life is very fragile.

I will say it again. You cannot compare America with puny countries. It doesn't work that way. Compared to giant countries such as China, Australia, India, Russia, Canada, Brazil? You know the answer to that one.

 

My point was that there's a tendency for people to assume that the silent majority thinks something roughly halfway between the extremes, which very often isn't the case, particularly over things like homosexuality, racism, abortion, etc. Seems like the most vocal are against gays, blacks, abortion etc., but it doesn't mean they represent more than a minority. There's a tendency to see people on TV discussing an issue and thinking they're supposed to be "representative" (i.e. each one representing 50% of the people). So people might get the impression that everyone is either a militant homophobe or a gay activist. Shit example, but all the same, I do feel like normal people aren't represented in the media, albeit because they usually, being normal, have lives to be getting on with.

 

It's the law of nature. Most people are more comfortable with being herded like fat cows. Bush got elected twice, duh? Once is carelessness, second time is S&M. Since gays don't have the same benefits as the straights in America, it seems to me they only vote when their money and little brats are affected. In point of fact, seems is not the accurate verb that I should use. I will not change my mind until gays receive the same financial breaks and laws in America. As far as I'm concerned heteros still hate gays in America with a vengeance. They beat up on gays financially and through laws. These hurt more than fist. With fist fights or physical war at least you get to punch back, stab, gouge the eyes out, use a machine gun................. Fuck "Silence"; I'm all for the Pink Pistols. I love the film Living End. If someone tries to physically harm me, I will do my best to kill that person quickly and efficiently. I won't blink an eye.

 

Once is Gore, second time is Kerry?

OK, honestly, I hate to sound preachy here, but you're confusing hatred and indifference. Most people don't turn up at pro-gay rights rallies or whatever because most people don't turn up to any rallies. Like I said, they're the silent majority. And you're right that they don't give a shit about stuff that doesn't affect them. It's kind of the attitude we want to keep, in a way - these are the people who don't care whether you're gay or straight if it doesn't affect them. We like those people, remember?

Unfortunately the flipside of that is that they're very hard to motivate, but I really think it's more to do with lack of information than anything. I recently found out that it's not that common knowledge that gays can't give blood. Most heteros don't know that. It's not that they hate us and want to fuck us over any way they can; they just don't think about us that much. No-one that I spoke to about it thought there was any justification for it. Not one. If they all hated us so much, do you think that would be the case?

As for the financial aspect, I don't really get you. It probably is different here; we have civil partnerships that would allow gay people the same rights as straight marrieds. I don't know, what else are we missing out on that we're entitled to?

And as to the law, well, you can fight back. People have, and they need to continue to do so, rather than just land the odd punch and run off. It sucks, and it's going to take a bloody long time, but hey, overnight revolutions tend to do fuck all; the fact that it's hard makes me more confident that it'll last when we win.

 

Lol. With Kerry, most Americans would rather get fisted than have him for a President.

QUOTE=SelfControl]
you're confusing hatred and indifference. [/QUOTE]I give "indifference" a week and that's being generous. When inequality's been going on for centuries...............that's hatred with a vengeance. You live in England and gays have many rights and benefits. In America we are a second class citizen.

 

My hatred quotient is much narrower than yours.

 

You see my point though, right? Bush didn't win any more than those who stood against him lost. The 2004 should have been forgone, but people stayed away in droves and the assholes won.

We have those rights now, but it's not like we've had equality forever. We do have the advantage of being a nation at times when homosexuality was far more tolerated than it has been over the past few hundred years, which I guess helps - we'd have traditions involving stuff like cross-dressing for centuries, and I really am thinking that there's some kind of long-term racial or cultural memory going on there.

But the point is, it's not like we're just accepted here. You shouldn't think it's much easier here really. We're more secular, but really, we're not in a hugely different situation. Stupid shit like geography still affects how well you're treated and so on... but I still can't call it hatred. I just don't understand where you're getting that from. If Americans had the energy to hate us as much as you're implying, they'd probably be a lot less husky as a race.

 

Well that's nice. I just don't know that, of all possible ways to protest, this one makes much sense. If it's not promoted, it doesn't really say much (pun sorta intended).

 

I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't apply to Bush. Bush accomplished his main goal, which is kill Sadam. So he did win, in his mind. To him, fuck the rest, he cares only about his needs. Sad to say though that Americans today are paying for his baby tantrums and these tantrums are but icing on the cake and he's maniacally laughing all the way to the bank.

Hatred is hatred no matter how a person sugarcoates it. The outcome is the same. You don't give the same rights to a group of people for hundreds of years, the bottom line of that is hatred. I don't care what kind of excuse a hetero uses to justify his or her lack of support. A hetero who doesn't support this equality in America is filled with hate towards gays. Many Americans hate gays but since we are part of the total, which is also made up of many minority groups, most Americans hesitate to make a law about rounding up the queers in concentration camps. They did it with the Japanese during WWII...........and guilt plays a major part of not doing this again I'm sure. WWII brought about lots of ugliness in the American psyche.......... Fuck all the canditates. They essential flushed the financial consequences of same-sex partnership down the toilet. What they're really saying is that fuck all these queers, they are a tiny minority group. I can almost hear them say......... "Queers are so divided with all these gay flags, what good are they? They won't make a dent on my ratings. Why should I waste my time on them? Let's get the soccer moms' and blue collar votes instead". So fuck trendy Silence............it's useless like the homo parade freak show. It's another opiate for the gay masses. Silence = Death. This is a new century. I don't accept any excuses but like a good man with a dream to manifest, I pay my taxes and live my life as livable as possible. Likewise I'm not a martyr. I'm too old for that.

 

Totally. Another trendy opiate for some gays, not all thank god. Not my drug that's for sure.

 

If it makes you feel any better, the next guy will probably be shit too.

Have you ever forgotten it was Black History Month and failed to think about black history for a whole month? Just sayin', because I have, and apparently that means I hate black people with a fiery passion that is just inexcusable and warrants any black person kicking the living shit out of me for the despicable crime of Not Caring. Trite analogy, but you see my point. Do you hate everything you don't actively support? I would hope not.

Again, I think you over-estimate how often they think about us.

 

You don't know me very well. But................I'm, to say the least, political. I take what I can grab. There are many ways to skin a cat. I don't over-estimate. Ignoring gays is a form of thinking. It is a choice. How could you not think about gays? There bouncing off the walls...............