Why you do/don't believe

I don't want this to be a "Bashing" Threads like most of them be it bashing other people's points of view or the religion itself. I just wanted to hear some different different reasons Why people believe or why people don't believe. If you have more than one reason, then that's cool. The more reasons the better. Please don't fill this thread with vain statements.

 

personally,

I have absolutely no idea or clue what I believe.
All I know is there is a God.

 

Why do I believe ?
Cause I can see the connection between the world we live in and God. And the connections are in everything, anyone and everywhere.
My scientific and rational nature doesnt allow me to believe that the Cosmos and its organization happened by accident. The Cosmos is spreading by certain laws and the planets are moving by laws. Its all so wonderful and precise that its hard to believe its all just an accident. In science everything has its cause and consequence. And in my opinion, science and religion go together perfectly.
The cause we dont know, but the consequence we do - an organized, harmonic Cosmos. And the Cosmos has energy. And as we all know, energy cant be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed from one form to another, given to the system or taken from the system. So something had to give the energy to the Cosmos.
It might as well be God. Or some higher force/power.

 

The thing is that no matter what point of view one clings onto, be it a theistic or atheistic POV, basic assumptions are made. Even the most exact of sciences, Mathematics, seems to be based on a few axioms. For example:

This is a statement that is not proven or disproven. It is an asumption. The assumption is that "There exists a God." The assumption is fine, but most assumed statements in logic should be "self evident." So I guess a better question is...

How is your assumption "There is a God" self-evident?

As far as Piaf goes, It seems as though you believe that there is too much order in a chaotic universe that one should not be able to deny an existence of God. However, this can be stated as "If there is order, then there is a God" and there is another assumption that "There exists order", which as a mathematician, I can grant you such an assumption as long as your belief system is at mercy with any mathematical axiom system HOWEVER, I will admit that you need to justify your claim with the question...

How is it self evident that if there exists order, then there is a God?


FedUpAmerican, I will ask you not to limit yourself to questioning other people, but I want you to answer the question as well. I'm guessing by the picture and the quote in your signiture that you do not believe in any "religion" or god, however even the secular view has assumptions. Infact, the definition of secular implies that the must exist a "religion" or a "faith" before one can take a secular point of view. Whatever the case, I would like for you to answer the question, "How are your beliefs self-evident?"

 

zhypper,

everyone here has heard the same logical arguments for and against the existence of God. You aren't bringing anything new. At first i thought you were just a new poster interested in why we believe. however, after watching you pick apart post, I know that isn't the case. That's why I tested the waters with my first post.

That being said, I've moved past my need to argue about the existence of God. His/Her existence is so blatantly obvious. We could make the go-arounds and circles, and give each other the same arguments heard a thousand times, and then the thread will die with nothing being accomplished, but I'll pass.

and fedup,

why should I tell you anything about my beliefs, when you wont share yours?

 

Believe in what?

• In truth? I believe in what Santyana calls "animal faith": that there is a real world out there full of real cliffs and precipices, not just an illusion, and that by means of logic and science we can actually make reliable conclusions about it. Beyond that, I have less confidence in my beliefs. I would never say I "know" anything, but I make bets, based on reason, life experiences, the best available evidence, and intuition. I also avoid the word "proof", but try to base my judgments on substantial evidence. This is a process similar to making decisons in other realms, like politics. Who will make the best President? What party offers the best programs? etc.
• In religion? I call myself a Christian because I've dedicated my life to attempting to follow the values the teachings and personal example of Jesus, as portryed in the Bible. Basically, I consider these to be nonjudgmental love and acceptance of all people, especially the poor, outcasts and rejects. I believe in these as a matter of primal faith. If someone says why be nonjudgmental, why not hate instead of love, the poor and outcasts are losers and misfits and should be eliminated for the betterment of the gene pool, etc., I can only say "Those aren't my values and beliefs".
• In other religions? I don't believe that Christianity has a monopoly on spiritual truth, and I draw on other religious traditions, including Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and pagan beliefs for spiritual insights.
• In the Bible? I believe that the Bible, while communicating important truths, needs to be understood historically and metaphorically. Those who take it literally miss the point.
• In God? I believe in SBWOT ("Something Big Within and Out There"). The finely tuned character of our universe, the remarkably fortunate emergence of intelligent, conscious life, seem otherwise too good to be true. It seems plausible to me that there is a divine transcendant order that gives our lives what keenness they have and inspired our idealism. I don't believe in a bearded Sky God who micromanages our lives. At the moment, I'm exploring panentheism (not pantheism) and process theology, and am constantly revising my views of this presence on the basis of my readings in science, metaphysics, and comparative religion.

 

Since the thread is why/why not do you believe, i would be interested in seeing why some do not believe.

 

good post this is how I feel also.

 

Thank you
I feel like I should continue defending my beliefs and try to explain better why I believe, but I cant really...

 

i stopped believing when i was 8 cause i thought about it.

 

Wy do you feel the need to defend your faith? Especially on the internet where it doesn't matter? I doubt anyone will be converted by any "proof" or personal testimony...

 

any explanation you give will simply fall upon deaf ears.

I wouldn't waste my time explaining my deepest thoughts to those that dont have open hearts anyways.

Just a heads up.

 

well I think it's all in the name of discussion, rather than trying to convert people.

however as you well know hryhorii, discussions dont take place on the christianity forums.
we've got lots of flaming, hating, sarcasm, half-assed jokes, and post that barely make it past personal offense, but no. No discussions.

 

Well my point is, we can say why we believe or don't believe, but it shouldn't get to the point where we end up "defending" our faith or lack thereof. This is the internet, and yes can have intelligent discussions for a while, but from what I got from Piaf's post is that she needs to defend her beliefs, or justify them when they realy need no justification or validation from anyone else...

 

We'd welcome any further thoughts, but your original post was fine and I don't see anybody attacking it.

 

I was referring to this.--> How ??? I cant answer it. I assumed people wanted a better explanation than the one I already gave. But you're right, it doesnt matter. Its an online forum and I dont need to defend my beliefs. And I certainly dont want to convert anyone.

 

fedup is just crazy like that.

 

Oh okay. I think Christianity forum is for anyone, except for Christians. Thats the impression I got.

And you've changed your sig pic and your sig quote! I love it !

 

you pretty much just hit the nail on the head. lol it's a warzone in here for some odd reason. oh well ppl gotta hate.

haha I did it b/c of this thread!

 

hmm I was thinking of a different group when I wrote that.

they will go unnamed.

for their protection. you know how crazy those crusades can get..