Spirituality and psychedelics

This has been a subject of interest to me for some time now and I would like to get some peoples' opinions on it.

Are psychedelic drugs vehicles of divine knowledge and transcendence to dimensions beyond our own? Or are these perceptions merely subjective phenomena which can completely be described with chemistry and no mention of the divine or spiritual?

Or a combination of both?

In lower to moderately above average doses, psychedelic drugs are portals to the inner psyche, and allow us to perceive new functions in the mind which were buried in our subconscious before. In higher doses where ego-destruction occurs, one's mind or "soul" can re-emerge with a higher "source" consciousness. It is at this level, where the ego ceases to exist, that doses are understood as "spiritual" experiences. Even while these phenomena do have metaphysical ramifications and explanations, they also have explanations in objective reality which are based on chemistry and the body-mind interconnection. This does not make them any less spiritual or important, it is only saying that something spiritual and something chemical are occuring simultaneously. The existence of one truth is not exclusive of the other and does not rule out the other truth, they coexist.

Some people will say that it is purely chemical and there is no such thing as spirit, soul, or god and that every bit of ia trip is entirely out of your own mind and nothing else. I disagree with this.

What do you think?

Let's start an intelligent debate here.

 

It may be possible that the experience can be subjective and spiritual as well. They are not mutually exclusive. The experience puts into question duality itself and the externality of relations.

 

I definitely agree with that.

 

Psychotronic Nick,
LSD can indeed expose one to the actual immanent divine, due to how they affect the divine pranic mechanisms that manifest human consciousness.
The Pranic/Cakra/Nadi paradigm, which comprises the dormant body of the Kundalini. Now, different people have different karmic trajectories, meaning their prana manifests their finite consciousness experience of self at different levels. Due to this, some people won't have spiritual experiences or divine revealing experiences at all. Others can trip the first time and be thrust onto the lotus feet of God.
In the sixties, experiences with God were alot more common, because of the strength and purity of the acid, and the mass prevailing mind set of consciousness introspection with was spawning hippie.
Today, in order to have a genuine experience with God, you have to really go out of your way to direct the trip, which means having a certain strength acid, something that you can really get off on one hit, then you do about five. That is about the strength of a hit of old orange sunshine or purple mocrodot. Then, you need to be in the country, away from machines and noise, even electronic except for certain music, such a "In Search Of The Lost Chord" by the Moody Blues.
And most of all, you need the mind set of offering to God your trip, so that He will reveal Himself. God is all reality, and is the source of your own consciousness, so to get a glimpse of His essence is not that hard. And believe me, what I say is true. And once you've genuinely experienced the divine, you will never be the same.
One problem, LSD is only a key to the door, once the door is open, you continue through with Yoga Tantra. Enlightenment is a state, not a realization. You become enlightened, not experience it. See my private message for more info.
Namaste, Yogin Bhairava Atmabhoda Sarasvati

 

Thanks for all the info. I think it's very interesting and can't wait to really openthat door for myself. I looked and haven't received a private message from you yet though, perhaps it didn't go through. Would you mind trying to resend it?

 

lsd is a beautiful spiritual tool for me personally. i'm a huge fan.

 

it's frustrating to have a repressed sub-mind . isn't natural , tho civilizers make it the norm by all their manipulating of reality . and then it's hard work to deprogram , and then make sense of what within you been set free . probably LSD helped me , but i gotta say this , doc said it depleted an enzyme in my brain . the cure was to have a calm life . that helps too . now that i'm better i can rage just fine and open and conciously do no harm cuz i trust my mind .

 

a human brain on average uses maybe 15 neurons. now a physcedelic such a Lsd will intensify your brains activity to use up to 35 neurons or more. with this in mind u can easily magnify ur divine knowledge so u call. esp or even further more O>B>E out of body experiences to bring u on the divine plane of ur so called god or what have u.
my first trip was at age 15. My ex-girl fed me 5 sugar cubes 2 dropes per. enough for what not to expect. i remember vividly sittin on the couch just geekin///then well i like to say i died. gone away from my body. I could see my self on the couch, not movin. Then i was gone from this universe or what have u, what came in front of me in the depths of blackness what the timetables of times. different sub-cultures nothing like we see. From different alternate universes or dimensions, watched them eat, talk, like a 1,000+ t.v screens with different life different creations.
From that point on i have been experimenting with physcedelics and metaphysics. learning to use the enhanced perception and harnessing through mediation and becomin one with my self and the universe.Astral travel at its greatest.

 

Yes, it is only a key, but a very powerful one.
There are many paths by which one can go when you've had the experience - it isn't at all limited to this or that philosophy or set of practices. It's a matter of what is right for each individual.

I'm in general agreement though with most of your other points, with the exception that I think some of to-day's electronic music is very much superior to stuff like the Moodys, who although I always liked them, I always find a bit too emotional.

Myself, I had many great experiences with lsd and with psilocybin - but I haven't taken anything of that nature in more than a decade now. As you say, it can open a door - it is very much dependent on the mindset of the person using it what they will experience.

Once you've seen it though, you've seen it - and in my case I see no further advantage in taking more. Believe it or not kiddies, that point does arrive!

 

I like to get high, you say whatever you want about drugs. No, I dont use them for any higher purpose, but it is built in my way of life as a part of existence.

 

Isn't any kind of perception, be it of a divine or human nature just a playing out of different chemicals in your brain? Why negate the use of psychedelics as a tool to connect to the divine by deeming it mere chemistry? All of life is chemistry. That being said, I feel that chemistry is irrelevant in one's consideration of experience. Yes, psychedelics are an incredibly useful tool to see the divine (they have certainly helped me), but they are merely one of many paths to the same realization, the same truth, the truth of Love. Baba Ram Dass sums it up quite appropriately in "Be Here Now" when he states: "It's all the same trip." Personally I feel that psychedelics are a quick and easy way to achieve divine revelation (not to say that this is bad), and they are thus predisposed to misuse. It would be highly unlikely that one would devote themselves to a particular Yoga just for kicks, as the results are not instantaneous as is the case with psychedelics. For those who are seriously interested in cultivating a higher consciousness, psychedelics are wonderful, and can serve as a solid stepping stone from which one can begin cultivate compassion and Love. Ultimately though, it depends on what the person does with the experience in his sober life, how he changes himself in reaction to lessons learned during the trip, that determines the spiritual usefulness/validity of the trip.

 

VERY well said!

 

I too have had the question of spirituality and connection to a greater realm. The connection that I make is to the place I call the spiritual world. I have connected through meditation, marijuana, and psychedelics to this spiritual world. The hard part about this subject is that everything contained here in is all intangible. A place where you cannot touch anything so you cannot carry anything back, only memories. But the memories will do you no justice but to yourself. With our society these days it is almost imparative that one proves himself with physical evidence because without it THEY(everyone who denies) will never believe you. Relax the first thing you should learn about the spiritual world is that it is only what you make it, only what you believe, only what you want it to be and most importantly it is only for you. You can have a revelation but you must remember it's yours. Something you may unseemingly comprehend sub-consciousnessly others may have a difficult time with understanding let alone believing. I think it's personal and should be held to individuals or small groups of trustworthy and un-jugdmental friends who are open minded to new ideas about life and spirituality.
Just a note: these forums are wonderful source of information, but one must read and TRY or EXPERIMENT with the Ideas to actually experience them. sitting here reading all day will never get you to any spiritual world. But it will keep you dreaming of it and yearning for it more. So relax, sit down and try meditation. IT'S FREE

 

right on bro, entheogens are there for a purpouse, they are the fastest way to get a truely spiritual and divine experiance. if it wasnt for them we would never get to experiance that rehlm. it show us their more to reality then we normally see. and with the continued use of entheogens like the shamans,native ameriacans and so forth have used for thousands of years and other spiritual "exersize" like art,yoga ect we become more intouch with divinity and our brain is amble to truely comprehend spirituality as it is they are esential tools. if it wasnt for entheogens we would proboly not reace such a high level of spiritualaty and intelegance. they are an exelant cure for many mental roadblocks. but you must rember they are a great tool to use and i see to many people misusing them to get fucked up. thats missuse and abuse. they tools for ur spirituality,love and compasion. not to get "fucked up"

 

There are many ways to look at the substances that produce that greater effect. Many people look at them in very different ways. Over the course of time we have used words to describe them, their purpose, effect and if they are good or bad, helpful or hurtful.

Entheogens; any substance, such as a plant or drug, taken to bring on a spiritual experience

Psychedelics; Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.

Hallucinogen; a substance that produces hallucinations

Hallucinations; a false notion, belief, or impression; illusion; delusion

All the words describe the same idea/action but the last three I believe to be used to 1. a classification of drug. 2. classify a group of substances made illegal in America and 3. to influence others to believe what we see is not real. The last one bothers me most. It's wrong to say what we experience is not real especially if one has not experienced it.


when enteogens are put down and frowned upon and made illegal they are grouped with every other illegal drug we know. If your not allowed to do it, people are almost drawn to it. Also when involved in drugs, a drugee most often gets bored and wants something new. Man, were they suprised?!
Not just any drug, eh. That's because it's not supposed to be used recreationally but spiritually


I use entheogens to further my spiritual growth and laugh at those who take them otherwise because they will NEVER get the full experience.

 

ya for shure bro!!!!

 

Entheogens reverse-engineer the spiritual experience, causing metaphysical experience via physical stimulus, instead of the metaphysical experience triggering the body to release certain chemicals. As a result, the entheogenic experience is innately less refined than the spiritual experience, although one may steer the experience and consciously compensate. In this latter case, there will still be a difference from metaphysical experience without entheogen use, because entheogens press buttons automatically without any effort required on your part. So it's reverse engineering, and you can learn to press the buttons yourself. It is worth considering, however, that, if you are free from Samsara the cycle of reincarnation upon death, then you will no longer be ensouled in flesh, and you won't need to know how to press all the buttons from the human physical perspective.

 

Heya

Shamans have used enthogenic plants for ages, and they are spiritual guides in native communities, so psychedelics have to have a spiritual effecct if not, then why do the shamans for instance know so much if this all is brainfuck .

But for me personaly it depends how you treat such a substance, for me these are sacred and taking it, is a ritual, but many young people just take it because its cool.

Bye Salivrah

 

Hi,

I am a manic depressive and have experienced drug highs. They dont come any where or remotely to the absolute estatic high of extreme mania, where every brain nueron, chemical lights up all at once in extreme exstacy. You then dont think your arecommuning with god, you become god you are god.

alan

 

This is ridiculous. Can you provide a valid source for the claim that humans only use 15 neurons. Seriously, 15? Out of the billions in our brains. FIFTEEN? And then maybe explain why we evolved billions of neurons if we only need 15, when efficiency is the name of the evolutionary game?