The Haters On Youtube

if i have to kill myself, i would take out people with me.

 

My point being, they can't blame it on religion. I know that non-religious people are capable of being homophobic, but I also naturally have more pity for homophobes who have been raised religiously, because I feel they haven't had the same opportunities to make up their own minds that those with a secular upbringing should have.

 

I actually have to defend the LDS religion. I am party atheist, a little confused in the matter, but I feel a need to defend the LDS/Mormon christian religion.

If Mormons started large protests against homosexuals, the LDS leaders would discourage it. If LDS students in a school discriminated against homosexuals(or other races or ppl with disabilities for that matter) then the church would probably ask them not to, and seriusly advise them not to. That is why i trust the mormon church, and if I had to believe in one religion it'd be the mormon religion. They also don't think of being faithful as receiving an "award". It's taught that it's to be able to live with your family and heavenly father for eternity, which seems to me to strengthen their faith, but in POSITIVE way.

The point im getting at is the LDS church(atleast in the majority) are more loving and peaceful with all kinds of people, and aren't extreme against acts against the bible.

 

You are confused. There is no room for homos in the Mormon cult.

 

That is true to a certain degree. First of all, it's not a cult. I've lived in Utah(Mormon Central of the world) and I've attended their church till i was ten, they are not a cult. As well, they have a few wards made of mostly homosexual members, who dont' want to be that way and want to be straight, until they ACT on homosexual feelings, that's when homosexuals aren't allowed in the church(unless it was by rape or without consent.) I dont' know all the rules, but it's close to this.

But that wasn't the point of my post. The point was that the Mormon leaders discourage discriminating or being hurtful towards any other person. I mean sure, there will of course be extremist mormons here and there, that will do such things, but it is highly discouraged and unwanted in the Mormon church.

 

sorry but letting them stick around until they act on their feelings is the same thing as not accepting gays. And yes you are confused. Historically mormons are very sexist, racist and homophobic...there are far more open minded and accepting churches, take united methodist for example.

 

Why would you say that? are you alright dude?

 

To many Christians, Mormonism is a cult. To many Joseph Smith is a heretic because the Bible is set against modern prophets.

Most men, probably 99% or unless their IQ is totally shot, have thought about homo acts. Just because you thought about it doesn't make you a homo. To be a queer, you have to act on it. You cannot fight your enemy during a bloody war with harsh words alone. Not only is homosexuality a sin, tattoos are a no no. No sex until marriage. Earings are for women only and one on each, not multiple earings. No gambling of all sorts. Dump Madonna too because a crucifix is not allowed. Forget reality artform because sex and violence are not allowed. You say homosexuality is okay in a Mormon church? I don't think so. More source for ya..........
http://www.gaymormonstories.com/gaymen.html

 

i mean i would take out the homophobe that wants my death.

 

Thing is, if you've got people who interpret the Bible as saying "it's okay to be gay as long as you don't act on it", on the grounds that sex should be for reproduction only, isn't that preferable to the ones who interpret the same text as an edict for a good ol'-fashioned fag-drag or whatever else they feel like doing on a Saturday night?

 

And how exactly are mormons against modern prophets?

And I said ACTED on homosexual thoughts, not just thinking them. Those that just have homosexual thoughts are accepted...my parents bishop didn't excommunicate me when he found out, and I'm still welcomed by him to come to church and church activities. (not that i would ha.)
Anyways...yes. Mormons are sometimes very strict. But to say they are a cult is absolutely ridiculous. The members CHOOSE to do those things, and the things they choose don't harm other religions or people. Now the whole point of my other posts was to say that mormons aren't known for bashing or harming other people. Sure, there may be a select few extremist mormons, but that's very uncommon.

And that website seemed ridiculous, the first one i read was about...80 paragraphs long and I didn't bother to finish it.

 

You're so confused that you can't even read my post correctly. The Bible is set against future modern prophets. To many Christians, probably except for Mormons, Joseph Smith is a heretic. To many Christians, the Mormon religion is a cult. Ridiculous to you, but that Mormon Presidential candidate didn't win probably because of this.

That website is rediculous to you because you are confused. No skin of my ass, you want so much to be accepted by your Mormon family and friends that you are willing to change for them. Hey, good luck. You'll need it. You must have a will of steel.

 

Wow, you're really being quite unpleasant now, cali. OK, so a Mormon family isn't going to be the easiest to make peace with as a homosexual. So what? What should he be doing instead? Persuading them to change religion? Estrangement? What would be the calisouth solution?

If your sexuality isn't your entire life, family is at least a parallel consideration. Some don't have the luxury of being able to condemn whole faiths as intolerant, because, if your family belong to that religion, where does it get you? I know some of my family wouldn't approve of some of the things I do if I insisted that they be happy about it, and that's not even entirely a religious thing. But because they are my family, I am obligated to keep them "on-side" as it were.

I don't know if I misread your post, but it seemed a lot like you were saying something quite nasty quite callously.

 

I'm being unpleasant? You're just as confused as this guy. My solution for myself is estrangement, to turn away but not in hostility, if my parents will not accept me for who I am. If it boils down to that. I have the guts. I'm out to my parents. They didn't like it at first, but I have to follow my bliss. It is my life to lead. You're parents aren't going to be there when you are in your deathbed. What are you going to say to your maker when that time comes? I was so unhappy on earth, God, because I changed for my family and friends? What a lame excuse! Your parents are not going to baby you forever. Why would you want them to? People make hard decisions everyday. They make their beds and lie in them. My parents don't pay my bills and taxes......... To follow your life and calling against all the odds with god on your side are the key ingredients to make an adult. They will give you character. Your family is not everything, but if they really love you they will work with you. You have to be true to yourself first and foremost. Being true will give you strength. Where in my post did I say for him to change his parents' religion? Even if he tried, I bet your ass his parents aren't going to change for him. Get your facts, and stop giving people the wrong info, such as gays "earn nominally more than straight guys" for example. Source??????? I'm callous? I think, not. You need to grow up, kid. You're 24 and you still think this way? Scary. Talk about a sheltered life.

"It could avoid the appearance of an immature need to have the last word?," to quote yarapario.

 

You seemed to assume that reaching a compromise between oneself and those around us - as we do with absolutely everyone, unless we're either socially maladjusted or lucky enough to be all things to all people without having to try - is a sign of weakness if you're aware that you're doing it. I don't see that it is a sign that someone is not "being true to themselves". Being aware of yourself seems, to me, far more useful than being "true". I guess I'm just irretrievably Foucauldian, huh?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about parents "babying" someone or "paying their bills". Perhaps you could explain.

Your post seemed to imply that one should not be attempting to build bridges. I don't know if you're clarifying your position or merely altering it, but I got the impression that you feel "being true to yourself" is a lot more important. Great if you're that kind of person, I guess, but why not leave the guy be? Does it offend you that much if he thinks his family is more important than himself?

You seem to be a great friend to the old "common sense" at the moment. I can't remember exactly where I got this "wrong info", but I did get it somewhere, I'm not just wackily making stuff up to be annoying. I don't really see what relevance it has to the issue at hand though, so I shall leave it at that unless you particularly want to discuss it further here.

As for my "sheltered life", I think that's an unnecessarily personal topic to raise, and I would hope that you wouldn't continue to make such assertions without evidence. I could trot out my life story, but it wouldn't be particularly interesting for anyone else (or me, frankly) and would probably just detract from the thread by dragging it off on a tangent. If you are that interested in knowing, I guess you could start a thread about it and I could give you all the detail you wanted - you're all about not using "the wrong info" so I'd imagine you wouldn't want to call someone "sheltered" without knowing all the facts first, right? - but it would probably be easier to just, you know, give it a rest maybe?

You don't think that bringing this up any time someone disagrees with you is equally immature? I was as peeved as you appear to be that that particular thread got locked, but I'd hope you'd avoid dragging this one down the same road. Is it mature to avoid discussion by citing age difference, or is that in fact something that we should've left in the schoolyard?

 

Let's not play dumb, it's beneath you.

If it boils down to that, if your parents are totally against your chosen lifestyle. You cannot move on with your life if you don't sever your ties with them. It doesn't mean that they won't change. My parents changed and we made serious compromises.

It doesn't offend me. I'm not easily offended. He made that post and I replied. What's your excuse?

Did I say annoying? You said it. It is relevant because other people read these posts. You don't want to sound ignorant, do you? How could people take you seriously?

I have the right to assert from what I've read. Everybody has that right too. Just like you.

As I recall, you started the age thing. There's nothing immature about a good debate. How you carry yourself is another matter. It's what's great about a forum like this because you can really see where the person is coming from. Even for just a moment. I like you actually because you have opinions, confused sometimes, but nobody's perfect.

 

to each his own. How you handle your family affairs is your business. Its regrettable that you would ever have to sever ties, but sometimes it does come to that. My dad spent his whole life trying to please his mom who was unpleasable, and my whole family suffered as a result. Sometime I think that if he had just said well, I love you mom but Im not going to bring over the grandkids until you shape up, she probably would have eventually come around. But its definitely not an easy thing to cut ties with someone you love.

 

An old friend is the same, but it affected the way he carried himself to the world. He acted and sounded weak, but I love him for who he is. He's a good soul and his parents used it against him.

 

Drew_445, rent Latter Days (Unrated Edition). It's one of my favorite films because it's close to home.

 

Btw SelfControl, I don't live by "common sense" and theories. I live by hard personal experience.

Calvin I.