This thread is inspired by the election countdown thread

Okay... the debate was going on in between the main topic of whether its right that people that make more have to pay more taxes.... someone then made a comment of "well because a person is succesful.....why should they.... pay more then anyone else?"

It leads me to ponder on the definition of success. Not everyone that is poor is lazy. My mom worked two jobs to take care of my brother and me with just a high school diploma and didnt make much.... why in the world should she (or someone like her, was just naming an example)- have to pay just as much as someone who grew up in a rich family and maybe inherited a family business or had the money to get a good education, etc.? i know i, myself, am making generalizations but i am just trying to make a point. Just because somone makes less money, does not mean they dont work hard. It also does not mean that they need a certain amount of money to survive. For the "successful" people making so much... all I can say is... many of them get greedy.

and how do you weigh a job? this was said to me before and it made a lot of sense. "How important is it that our garbage gets collected and taken away?" (now really think about that).... now, think about a high-paying job (you pick one)... is the first job any less important? im not saying they should end up with the same gross income but it kinda sheds some light here on what im trying to get at (at least i hope so)

 

answer me.

 

I'm with you, but I've always been about taxing the rich far, far, far more than they are; make it hurt em! heh....

Actually, I do believe this question goes way deeper than a question of morals, a flat percentage based tax across the boards seems pretty fair at first, but with the current laws the way they are (and I have no idea about all this stuff, I just get to listen to my sister, the cpa, bitch about how her bosses weasel their way out of taxes).

Anyway, I don't know exactly what I'm talking about, but yeah.... tax the rich, and make it stick!

 

There are grants and scholarships for people to get a good education. If they choose not to use their potential resources, that is their problem. If they got pregnant in high school and couldn't find the time to go to college, that is also their problem. It is not my problem. I should not be penalized for their lack of ambition or their fucking up their own lives when they were young. There are qualifications for high paying jobs most of the time. If you are not smart enough or lack the proper training to get such a job, then you will not get the high paying job.

Success -

1. The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted: attributed their success in business to hard work.

So if you think that your mom was successfull, then she must have achieved what she had desired or planned. For example her 2 jobs and raising her kids with only a highschool degree. Had she wanted to be a CEO of a big company and make lots of money, then she would be considered unsuccessful.

If you make less than 25,000 a year, you are only contributing about 3% of the nations taxes.

 

The more you make it hurt them - the more they will make it hurt you. Raise their taxes and they will raise their prices.

 

I don't buy that. When Dubbya Bush came and gave a tax break to the upper two percent, I sure didn't see prices come down, and back when Clinton came into office and raised taxes on them, I didn't see prices go up, then.

 

too many words, didnt read.

 

I agree....


"The more you make it hurt them - the more they will make it hurt you. Raise their taxes and they will raise their prices."

That argument is just typical republican propaganda.


You cut their taxes, they thicken their bank account. And maybe even some of it goes back into their beloved candidate's next campaign.

 

And maybe even some of it goes to opening a new store in your town and creating 1,000 jobs.

 

No thank you, we already have 5 wal-marts here that have put many local stores out of business, destroying plenty of jobs.

 

The 5 wal-marts you speak of probably employ far more people than the couple of stores it took down. Don't get me wrong here - I won't step foot in a wal-mart. Since wal-mart has come into our town there have been no other retailers that I know of that have went out of business. The Kmart did take a hit, but as far as I'm concerned, they are just about as bad.

 

It just doesn't work that way! The evil greed resulting from those tax cuts to the upper upper class far outweighs they good willed nature to lower prices and open more businesses.

On top of that, why can't the poor and the middle class be allowed to open up their own corner stores, start their own industries, create more jobs for others? They sure can't do it being taxed to death, working 2 jobs, making studying for that college degree near impossible, let alone making it to class!

We had Reaganomics and a recession for 12 years, finally got Clinton into office and watched the economy turn around.

 

Most of the bigger businesses that are getting the tax breaks are rapidly expanding. That means more stores, more jobs ans more buying power for them, which will lead to lower prices.

They are allowed to. There are several government loans out there for people to start new businesses with. I do not consider 10% being taxed to death! How would you like to be paying 35+% like the businesses you are bitching about?

 

I wouldn't mind paying 35% of my money to taxes one bit at all if I was making the millions and millions that those big businesses are, it's nothing. First tho, I'd base my company in the Cayman Islands and save myself a whole ton of money, buy some accountants and utilize an arsenal of loopholes to avoid even more. We're getting well beyond partisan politics, this is the system as it stands, I would like a massive reform for what we'll stand for.

And I'd like to see someone with next to no education, working two jobs, find the time to first learn how to write a business plan, then research it, then actually write it, then get it approved; all before half their life has disappeared.

 

If your not smart enough to take advantage of the options given to you, then you don't deserve to have your own business. You most likely would not even be smart enough to run your own business anyhow. The people that make the big $ are very intelligent people that make big business decisions.

 

So the more intelligent american's should be allowed to exploit and underpay the stupider ones? They should be able to destroy all local and small businesses? They should get all the big breaks?

Yep...you've made more money in your lifetime than the average american will ever see...and your reward? A huge tax break!!

 

The thing with lowering federal income tax is that it means the states have to find their own ways of covering the lost revenue. This means that paycheck taxes go up.
Why should someone who works 2 jobs just to get by have to give 1/5 or even more on their paychecks? they need the money for food, fuel and shelter (which is getting more expensive everyday it seems), while someone who lives off a trust fund gets an income tax break that they don't need.

 

well i dont neccasarily think that capitalisum is the best way. at least in its purest- lassaz faire form..... socialized capitalisum seems to be the best way that is plausible anyways for western society...

ill have to re-read this but i dont think anyone that opposes what i said really touched down on why they believe that certain jobs need to be paid more then others. why should a CEO deserve so much more then someone that is in the humanities, changing peoples lives for the better everyday (etc.)?
for me, that is a good reason that the rich should be taxed more...they have more money and are often just getting greedy and they are not neccasarily working any harder.....

 

and eugene...thank you. that was my point.

and to chickenchoker or whatever, it's not always about who is more intelligent (but even if it was).... people grow up in different situations and because someone does not have the family background/money/prestige to open up a business or invest or whatever else, it does not mean they should not be able to get by if they do what they need to do...meaning work.