"Good" and "Evil"

lol, but then again it is your choice to believe that free will does or does not exist. Responsibility and comprehension are the mother and father of all existance are they not? Without them we could not perceive of ourselves let alone something external. Therefore we would not exist and neither would our opinions on the matter. Desire is what drives us and the ability to desire is an exercise of freewill, therefore even if it's something that is preprogrammed it is still a choice. It is my belief that time is an illusion therefore there is no pre anything to program but only this moment and within it our choices are infinitely complex given the limitations of the reality we are perceiving. You touch the keyboard and a letter apears, is that your choice, not necessarily but the reaction creates responsibility and to accept or not to accept responsibility is your choice. So freewill does exist, whether it is relative to the individual or all of existance, past or future doesn't matter but only that no form of now could exist without it and since now is the only thing that does exist, responsibility is eternal and with it the choices you make. Maybe there is some super consciousness manifesting everything around you or maybe it's just you, either way somewhere within the depths of the mind is the belief in it and therefore the responsibility to maintain that belief, freewill.

Bear - 1
Freewill - 1.5

 

Surely freewill exists, Im not saying that it doesnt! But it exists in the same sense that good and evil exists. The 'preprogramming' is not measured in time as it applies to existance but rather to the happening initially before the dawn of creation. And how is it not so? Are not computer programs extensions of what the mind already is? Are not television and radio programmed in like fasion? The universe is composed of vibrations, consciousness is simply a tool created to receive, interpret, and project certain frequencies and it most definitley has very obvious limits in it's abilities to perceive. How then is it not programmed?
Did you chose to be born and have this awareness, this consciousness, descend upon your bodily host?
Bear - 1.8
Freewill - 1.5

 

First of all we are the hosts of our bodies not the other way around...

Therein lies your folly, you're still basing your understanding of choice on past events. The words I type are not my choice only the responsibility that the now creates and with it comes the responsibility of my consitant perception of it.

Bear - 1.8
Freewill - 2.1

 

But how is the now any different from the then? After all, the mind can never be aware of the actual now considering that in order for it to discriminate its existance currently it needs to process its postition, and therefor is not physically able to ever simply exist in the moment. So, your now is the same as my then, except for out perception of the distance in between. (While I will say that there is no distance and that space is as much an illusion of time)
Though this argument is circular and we can only serve to compliment each other, is not everything in the comprehended universe circular? Even in the theoretical particles inside particles, the circular revolution is apparent. So being that everything is circular and revolves, is it so difficult to become aware of the programming? It is impossible to break out of revolution as long as we are tied to this phsycial multiverse, so my 'free will' allowing me to believe that I am free of the circle may exist, in my mind, but it does not make it possible to reveal to others that I may indeed break free of the revolution, just as a computer does not have the ability to create more than it is programmed potential, just as the mind can use its creative ability to manipulate that which is already programmed, and so on.
Bear - 2.4
Freewill - 2.1

 

While many people disagree on what is good and what is evil, there has to be some sort of universal point of view on it. Wiping away all the dogma from religion, and looking only at the core values of life, couldn't it be said that anything that hurts someone else is evil?

BTW, you dont realize how much you love baby bears, until you have merged with God after a night of methstacy and watch them on Animal Planet, refering to them as "your children"

Bear - Infinity
Freewill - 2.1

 

Hey there neodude, you're located in Georgia I'm from Georgia ain't that a peach pecan pie stuffed deerhead on a wall pickup truck...

The problem was never whether free will and right and wrong are limited or not, but only whether or not they can exist for us in our daily lives. As I stated before, the words I type are not my choice but only my understanding of the responsibility which they contain. Free will is never bound by some form of mulitverse or physical reality but only the choice of whether or not one can maintain responsibility. Without it free will cannot exist, but with it free will can exist along with everything else that it creates therefore permeating the now and establishing a conscious awarness of it. Meaning that it can either be circular or seperated into two parts, or possibly and most likely an infinite number of parts the likes of which you and I could never even conceive of let alone classify in any rational sense.

Yes free will does exist though it is hard to believe in for some because of the variations of responsibility which it can produce. When the boundries of someone's free will limits them within a reality which they cannot enjoy they can choose to either reject it and along with it their responsibilities or accept it. Since one can never know if what one does has any consiquence outside of themselves believing in responsibility can only ever be a choice. Though once the choice is made and an action is taken it is imprinted on the now for all who perceive it and differently for each one who does. These are not reactions to the physical world but only reactions to the level of stress which the responsibilities of free will can create. Free will is not only a human perception but because of our complexity we can choose to question whether or not it's worth the chore of believing in and whether or not to respond to that perception. Responsibility is also something which must be shared in order to exist which in turn says something about free will and creation itself. If a single moment of joy is worth all of the pain and suffering in all of existance but can equally be paid for by believing in responsibility, the choice is simple but the free will is still there. Saying that everything is preprogrammed is a cop out on responsibility and an exercise of one's own free will to do so, but this is something that could (and often does) easily lead to misinterpretation by someone else who does not yet fully understand the responsibilities that this point of view will create for them and could easily lead them into a life that they never intended to have. Worth is certainly an important factor in life and responsibility and free will are necessary components of worth as well as intentions, without them this discussion coudn't and wouldn't be possible let alone worth having.

Bear - 1.8
Freewill - Infinity to the eternal power times forever squared pluss always minus a douchebag or two.

 

My opinion on the subject is, anything or anyone that intentionally an' knowingly hurts another living being is "evil" Anything else falls under the category of "alright" but then there is always an exeption to each an' every rule.

People think that war when done for the "right" reasons is good. Yet who are we to determine what the "right" reasons are? Ahh the irony of the "truths" decided by society. Really I guess you can't say that anything is good or evil, but what you can say is that it's biased man.

 

I was just thinking-- is evil actually a series of wrong or anatgonistic things that you do or is it when you use your free will to encourage destructive results? The two are actually very different.

1. The person who does bad things could think that he or she is basically doing good, ie: they could believe that my mother is evil, so they shoot her in the face because they think it's right and needs to be done.

Or

2. They could know that my mother is a wonderful sweet human being (which she is ), and they could kill her just because they know it's wrong and that's what they want.

I would say that a lot of hate and antagonism in the world has more to do with people who believe themselves to be actually good but are unable to see the good aspects of things, or because they don't have a proper sense of their actions due to anger, hate, stupidity, greed, etc...

I would say that 2 is rare, but it also exists... it's hard to imagine someone wanting to do things simply for the sake of being destructive, or simply because they know it's the wrong thing to do... but nowadays, it seems very possible.

 

good point heywood, man. Very good point.

 

Even if one holds life, nay, existance itself, to be preprogramed, one may still work out their responsibility. It is in no way an automatic negation of responsibility, for some the negation is their program, for other's it is not. I dont really see how you are making this connection as if it was so horrible and destroying a growing mind into making poor life choices out of fear or simple acceptance. We can accept reality to be playing out it's program, and continue to not only work out responsibility but rise above and beyond Nature's expectations for our reactions. The programing runs much deeper than that Im afraid. It encompasses all and can therefor neither be refuted nor proven. The choice you make to believe in one or the other is not a choice it is how you are written to react. It is knowledge of the matter, it is direct experience of witnessing Nature's program play out in front of you multiple times that gives this knowledge. And I've had it happen twice. Deja vu is not just a infested brain traffic circle during rush hour you know.
Bear - Infinity x Infinity x Infinity anything you say is topped for all infinities x a billion and 2
Freewill - 0 (damn!)

 

either way, that is why violence never solves anything, whether you think you doing something good or not.

 

How about Hitler? I think violence was the only solution there. The alternative would have been to just allow the nazis to take over. Not a pleasant prospect.

Sometimes violence is the only way to end violence, even if that seems like a contradiction.

Maybe one day humanity will evolve beyond the basic agression intrinsic to primates in general, until then, I can't see how we could do without violence without submitting to even worse violence in some cases.

Don't get me wrong - I deplore violence, but I don't think turning the other cheek could work in every situation.

 

RELAYER:

First of all, we can both agree that the mind's ability to perceive definitely has its limitations. Therefore putting excessive amounts of pressure on a growing mind can hinder its ability to grow by exceeding the level of comprehension that it is currently undergoing. Once this level of comprehension has been exceeded not only is the growing mind reluctant to proccess the information, but it becomes incapable of comprehending responsibilitly let alone being able to work out the limitations of its own free will, which then decreases the level of possibilities available to the growing mind to aquire and maintain its own intentions. This is why free will has to be shared and it is also where right and wrong come into play. My point is that there is no programing to anything even programs because they are not perceivers but only perceptions, a conscious being is capable of free will but only when it chooses to accept responsibility. If a car is going to hit you, you can jump out of the way and take responsibility for your life or you can just stand there and hope that something or someone else takes responsibility for it, either way whether or not you want to exist is up to you. Your argument is that the want is based on programmed desire which has been built up over time and is not up to us, what I am saying is that the past, present, and future are all contained within the now and that the now is a conscious choice which we all have to either believe in or not. The problem with free will is that it has to be shared in order to exist and one's ability to believe in something outside of themselves is a choice that only they themselves can take responsibility for. With responsibility comes free will, with free will comes perception, and with perception comes the existance of right and wrong.

I know all about Deja vu btw, I survived an entire day of it. Predicting a car being keyed, a large branch falling out of a tree, and an entire conversation 2 people were going to have before they even did and I wasn't even envolved in it. Deja vu is not necessarily the experience of witnessing Nature's programming playing out, it may also be, and probabily is, simply a moment of increase in the conscious ability to calculate the most likely outcome of the surrounding environment; given that every environment in all of existance might only be the produced manifestation of a singular consciousness of which its desires are driven by predictable elements that we can and do occasionally tap into. Or it could be and probabily has to be in order for free will to exist that every indipendent moment creates an infinite number of choices for every perception spawning off an infinite number of possible paradoxes, or possibly the number of choices for every moment are not infinite and instead are limited to the substantial unifying desires of some hidden purpose to every form of awareness though not infinite still enable free will to exist. These desires of limitation may seem like the preprogramming you speak of but may in fact be continuously fluctuating based on individual free will as is changes from one moment to the next creating these separate paradoxes. (By paradox I don't mean only a moment that is true and false at the same time but that can be either or and everything in between based on free will) The creation of these paradoxes would be produced when the amount of positive and negative energy within a conscious being suddenly changes dramatically, forcing them to make a life altering decision. For example when an extremely negative event happens to an extremely positively charged person. This would mean that not every choice we make would create a seperate paradox but only when these types of substantial moments happen, sort of like when you put two mirrors facing each other; it may appear in the reflection that there are an infinite number of mirrors but in reality there are actually only the two. When these parallel paradoxes separate creating different timelines for each individual perception they may occasionally create two which are not the same but eventually will reconnect and produce extremely similar circumstances. As these two separate individual conscious perceptions reunite their ability to calculate the outcomes of their surounding environments may continue to increase exponentially being based on two separate builds of understanding giving them the illusion of Deja vu until they once again seperate. For example: As a child you choose a specific career, let's say Graphic Design, to persue. In another paralell existance you choose to become an Architect. Somehow in both of these separate realities you get out of college around the same time and for some reason, even though you made up your mind differently in these two separate timelines as a child and had completely different life experiences up to this point, you still became a Graphic Designer. You get your first job and in both timelines it's the same job, different start dates maybe but the same job. One day you go into the office and something happens, you feel as though you've seen the same thing and experienced the same event happening somehow. What's going on is that at this place where you now work you've had no prior influence on it, or the lives of the people in it, in either of these timelines. Then something happens in both timelines that is extremely similar and the reactions it gets from everyone else is the same but not you because you're reconnecting to the separate you and are viewing it from two different perspectives through the same set of eyes. The idea of every moment and timeline being a paradox means that time and space are as much illusions as they are not and everything in between.

You see it is possible in many ways for us as people or any form of consciousness really to not be preprogrammed, though it is hard for us to concieve of doesn't mean that it isn't so. Just because a person gets up in the morning and drives to work doesn't mean that they can't just jump up into the air and fly the distance but instead they choose to drive. This isn't to say that there isn't a parallel existance where it does happen, who knows where the consciousness of a catatonic drifts away to and who's to say that the place where they go is any more or less real than this world. Haven't you ever heard that song BITTER SWEET SYMPHONY by the Verve? You are you because you choose to be, that bear is on that tree because it chooses to be and all of this is made possible by free will, but no matter what happens we are all responsible for whether or not we believe in it or respond to what we do or don't believe, there is no preprogramming in this equation only now. This being said, your now is different than my now because I choose to believe it is which opens up the portal to all of the nows and the responsibilities we each have towards them as they find their way into the reach of our free will.

Bear - 1
Free Will - Kind enough to allow the bear to exist

BTW, my posts are at 8 which is the symbol of infinity meaning that no matter how many times you post you can never win. Pluss, I'm 23 years old and I don't know if you've ever seen that movie The Number 23, but you should be afraid. BE VERY AFRAID! Muhahahaha...

To the post below by NeoDude, because I can't post anymore or my post number changes from 8 ;p, the point of all of this is that the bear should just be happy that it exists because the only thing that can beat free will is responsibility =/. Hey I gave it a score of 1 ok, that means it's alive...
You want better than that talk to RELAYER.:nopity::sabres: :beatdeadh

 

I guess I should have stated it better.

You bring up a good point, so I guess what I was trying to say is that someone is going to get hurt when you use violence, every single time. And that hurt spreads to family, loved ones, ect.




GAB, just let the bears win damn. It pains my heart so see their little fuzzy score at zero....
They are my children after all. lmao. good times...