new study says "Anti-depressants a waste of time"

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23282771-2702,00.html

NEW-GENERATION antidepressants, including the "happy pill" Prozac, may be no better at relieving the symptoms of depression than a dummy pill.

Controversial new research builds on earlier claims that the drugs work only for the most severely depressed patients, and there is no reason to prescribe them unless other treatments have failed.

The research, by Anglo-US experts, also claims that even part of the benefit seen in very depressed patients stems from their having a reduced response to the placebo - the term for the dummy pills against which trial drugs are usually compared - rather than an increased response to the antidepressant when compared with patients with less severe depression.

If correct, the findings - based on an analysis of 35 studies lodged with the US Food and Drug Administration by the drug makers - imply a massive overuse of the drugs worldwide.

The drugs in the analysis, which include the brands Effexor (venlafaxine), Aropax and Prozac, have achieved blockbuster sales since being introduced in the 1990s. There were nearly four million prescriptions written in Australia for the three drugs combined in 2006-07, costing the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme $130million. Venlafaxine, the most commonly prescribed of the three, was the eighth-biggest drain on the PBS in that year.

A fourth drug included in the research, nefazodone (Serzone), was withdrawn in Australia in 2004 after being linked to liver and eye problems.

The analysis - published in the US journal Public Library of Science Medicine - has been criticised by Australian experts, who say its findings are badly flawed.

Gordon Parker, director of the Black Dog Institute and professor of psychiatry at the University of NSW, recently argued in the British Medical Journal that depression was over-diagnosed.

But he said patients should not shy away from antidepressants as a result of this study, as the patients on whom the results were based "bear very little correlation to the people we see in real-life clinical practice".

In particular, participants in trials of antidepressants were usually hospital outpatients rather than admitted patients, they were not suicidal, and did not have drug or alcohol problems - criteria that limited the wider applicability of the results, Professor Parker said.

Patients with melancholic depression were often "in a very dark place" and rarely got onto clinical trials. But 65 to 70 per cent of these patients responded to antidepressants, whereas only 10 to 15 per cent improved after taking the placebo, he said.

"I'm particularly concerned about people who are benefiting from antidepressants, or would benefit, feeling that an effective treatment is useless or discredited (as a result of this research)," Professor Parker said.

Ian Hickie, director of the Brain and Mind Research Institute at Sydney University - who argued against Professor Parker in the same edition of the British Medical Journal - said the findings ignored the fact that suicide rates had fallen in countries where antidepressant use was most widespread. "It would be a mistake to say that drug treatment should be withheld for anything other than the most severe depression," he said.

"Even quite low levels of depression significantly increase suicide risk."

The study, led by Irving Kirsch, now at the Department of Psychology at the University of Hull, builds on earlier analyses of the same data he published in a different journal in 2002.

A spokesman for GlaxoSmithKline, which makes Aropax, said Professor Kirsch's team had "failed to acknowledge the very positive benefits these treatments have provided to patients".







i personally do not see much difference in this article from the one i posted,,, they all still say they are over used n given way to much credit for what they can do ,,, again, i think its more for future purposes,,, start teaching people to live without them rather than going on them to begin with...

 

My prevailing theory is that the new wave of anti-depressants and the trend to make quick diagnoses and prescribe them is less about control and more about ensuring the hefty bottom line of the pharmaceuticals who are under considerable pressure to help bring down the cost of health care (probably so the government can draft a national health insurance program). Those types of drugs may not be covered under some basic policies and their exclusion may enable number crunchers to churn out some sort of universal coverage that appears very cost effective- just long enough to win passage.

I can certainly accept that most of what's being prescribed is unnecessary but my guess is that it's more about money than it is about control. Unfortunately laziness prevents me from looking for any articles that may support my supposition- only my gut instinct that tells me that most in government couldn't care less about controlling us as long as they don't need to be bothered actually make any sort of meaningful contact... we're considered no more than custodians of their money- our job is to shut up and pay our taxes.

 

money = greed=control ???

 

Point well taken... my sense is that the control is just a fringe benefit and not a main objective as it implies at least some level of concern. I'm convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that those in charge couldn't care less about us- just our money. We're just disposable fleshy containers.

 

way i figger it those ultimately in charge dont need money... its the control n the power that they seek... not that it really matters in the end,,, its all rather evil n none of it is really any better nor worse than the other....it all leads to the same sorry ass plotting n scheming...

 

These drugs have a non-selective effect on the brain. By increasing serotonin with these drugs, its basically like taking a sledge hammer to your brain. They are effective for some depression type symptoms, but they can also make some stuff worse (sexual dysfunction, insomnia). Like any drug, a person only takes it if the positive effects outweigh the negative effects.
Technically the drugs do "work". Many of the trials just were'nt constructed well enough to distinguish placebo from the real drug.

http://www.slate.com/id/2182585

 

I can't say you're wrong- though their definition of "need" will differ from yours and mine. I'm not going to fall into the trap of arguing the same side of the subject and you're 100% correct on that last bit from where I'm sitting.

Taking the topic a bit sideways...

Funny how the kid who was fidgety and couldn't pay attention when I was in school wasn't doped down- those in charge took the extra energy to keep them in line and those individuals often grew up to be the brightest, most creative, AWESOME people- but in the past couple decades we decide that that mind that was brimming with energy and clicking a million times faster than everyone else actually has a disorder and there's a pill that'll put them in a trance so they're not a bother to the slow majority.

 

You could have a steam train
If youd just lay down your tracks
You could have an aeroplane flying
If you bring your blue sky back

All you do is call me
Ill be anything you need

You could have a big dipper
Going up and down, all around the bends
You could have a bumper car, bumping
This amusement never ends

I want to be your sledgehammer
Why dont you call my name
Oh let me be your sledgehammer
This will be my testimony
Show me round your fruitcage
cos I will be your honey bee
Open up your fruitcage
Where the fruit is as sweet as can be

I want to be your sledgehammer
Why dont you call my name
Youd better call the sledgehammer
Put your mind at rest
Im going to be-the sledgehammer
This can be my testimony
Im your sledgehammer
Let there be no doubt about it

Sledge sledge sledgehammer

Ive kicked the habit
Shed my skin
This is the new stuff
I go dancing in, we go dancing in
Oh wont you show for me
And I will show for you
Show for me, I will show for you
Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do mean you
Only you
Youve been coming through
Going to build that power
Build, build up that power, hey
Ive been feeding the rhythm
Ive been feeding the rhythm
Going to feel that power, build in you
Come on, come on, help me do
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you
Ive been feeding the rhythm
Ive been feeding the rhythm
Its what were doing, doing
All day and night...


Kick the habit and put on some new skin Reptiles,,

 

Funny how the kid who was fidgety and couldn't pay attention when I was in school wasn't doped down- those in charge took the extra energy to keep them in line and those individuals often grew up to be the brightest, most creative, AWESOME people- but in the past couple decades we decide that that mind that was brimming with energy and clicking a million times faster than everyone else actually has a disorder and there's a pill that'll put them in a trance so they're not a bother to the slow majority.


ITS HOW THE SMART STAY SMART AND CONTROL THE WORLD>>> PUT ON SOME NEW SKIN REPTILES>

 

I think this thread is a waste of time, made by a bunch of people who don't understand what they are talking about, people get a life.

 

Mediations can help people who are struggling w/ the mundane basics of life. Anti-depressants should not be prescribed for those w/ less severe cases of depression unless alternative treatments do not help. If someone is having severe difficulties functioning in every day life, why should we criticize the medications that help them regain control of their life? When I stopped taking my medication for bipolar disorder, it was hard for me to take care of myself, as in personal hygiene such as showering and brushing my teeth. After the damage I did then has healed, I am now much more productive and able to handle all the little things in life that before left me paralyzed. I am happier and living a much fuller life than I could have imagined when I was first diagnosed, as my life had completely fallen apart due to a psychotic manic episode.

Not all doctors prescribe medications first w/o considering alternative therapies. I had much trouble sleeping and my psychiatrist recommended Melatonin first, then a mild anti-histamine, before putting me on a stronger medication. He tried other options until the alternatives were exhausted. Being bipolar, sleeping less than 7 hours can lead to mild hypomania while sleeping more than 9 hours leads to mild depression.

Some people do need medications and I don't think it's right to disregard these people. I have seen people take themselves off of their medication while they were doing well and end up in the hospital within months. If alternative treatments don't work for someone and medication does, it is not our place to disregard these individuals by saying "anti-depressants (or other medications) don't work."

Peace and love

 

Yeah what hippie chick said i tried years to control my depression no such luck medications work.

 

Sorcha, you didn't bother to read this thread properly, maybe you were having a bad day, your get a life post was misinformed
from another thread you certainly didn't bother to read what i had written
[
while i am mentally healthy and have always
taken responsibility for my madness by not playing
the blame game and being in and staying in year long
residential outpaitient programes
i use my skills eveyday

so being put in hospital
under a court order is fucking horrible
police are involved and handcuffs
or an ambulance cuffed and sedated

three years ago, under a 28 day court order
with a nurse that had to be within one metre
of me at all times horrible

i am a petit brunette who can
when insane, be quite nasty

yet at the time i was quite insane
a danger to myself
i cannot remember the first three weeks
they don't put you on a medical routine
straight away
they work out, or at least try
to see what is going on first

yes, i have been through this a few times
was it for the better
yep, for me
i have a buisness,somewhere to live, a lifestlye i enjoy
animals and a couple of close friends

what the problem is , is STIGMA
it will never go away and still happens
even in cyberspace[/QUOTE]

 

of course it is... they dont know medicine and are affraid of it.... Like they hated witchcraft 100's of years ago... medicine is The language of Saint's and Satan... ^ These ppl are still living in the dark ages... its time we move on and away from them... Treat those who want treated and those who respond to treatment.... We thought the computer would help ppl with their mental illness ... Instead new illnesses grew from a computer age....

 

I think this thread is a waste of time, made by a bunch of people who don't understand what they are talking about, people get a life. and then
Yeah what hippie chick said i tried years to control my depression no such luck medications work.said by SorchA

i just think people can contribute to threads and have different opinons
it makes the world go round. it just makes sense to read the whole thread

 

you cant deny that anti depressants are highly over-prescribed though. i mean, i coudl walk into my doctors right now, say im suffering from too much anxiety or im too depressed to do schoolwork or go to my job, and get prozac (or whatever) without anything else. yeah, they work for some people.... but most who are put onto them dont need them. mild to moderate depression does not require drugs, it requires 1)exercise 2)eating better 3)counselling. and if you relaly want pills for mild/moderate depression, theres always lower impact things like st johns wort

 

sorry i have to go to work now ill post a better reply later.............

 

I think we should look at the medical practice as a whole- there are many other medications that are overprescribed besides anti-depressants. Antibiotics, for example. Whenever my fiance went to his doctor for an earache, sore throat, cough, etc, he was given antibiotics. Last month, he suddenly developed an allergy to penicillian based antibiotics. Is this a surprise? Think about all the antibiotics we consume from meat products alone. If I remember correctly, livestock are given around 5 billion grams of antibiotic per year vs. antibiotics for humans (somewhere around 4 million grams). That in itself is scary- no wonder MRSA is popping up at schools and other public places.

Are antidepressants overprescribed? Perhaps. But is this the only case of medication being overprescribed? No. This may be a trend in the medical community to prescribe medications first, ask questions later and for some (not all) never consider any alternative treatments. I do think it is also the responsibility of the patient to ask questions and learn about their treatment before given a new medication, no matter what it is. Also, ask about alternative treatments- how would your doctor know if you wanted to try a non-medication alternative if you don't tell them? Some doctors may give you a referal to people who specialize in alternative treatments. You never know until you ask.

Peace and love

 

i never said anti depressants were the only overprescribed medication
i have spoken to doctors about alternative medicines and have always been told that they dont know about them, its not what they schooled in, etc etc

 

yea they wouldnt put me on meds unless i was suicidal so yea