a reincarnation of goddess saraswati...

... that's what a woman (neerja) from uttar pradesh, northern india, said she was...
she stayed alone in a small closet for 5 yrs, without any food and did not need to go to the toilet. her managers said: she will soon transform into a lifeless staty of saraswati. later, some people checked her room: they did find a hidden entry to another small room, a toilet. and there was also a brick loose, where food could be brought in. when a harmless gas causing a vomiting sensation was realeased in her closet, she vomited pieces of chapati and potato.

 

thats horrible, but why are you telling us this?

 

having been in india 4 times, where the religion is so alive and amazing, i ahave also seen an another side :there are also loads of fake sadhus and cheating priests.....
we tend to romanticize wow it really is: it is chaotic....and not always honest.
another example: about Kali.
there was this priest who one day says that something amazing happened to the kali statue in the temple: she had starting menstruating. so everyday hundreds of people come, to pray to her, amazed by this miracle, and the priest started making money by selling cloth stain wiht "her" blood to the worshipers, and more and more people arrived...

 

Oh yea there is alot of ignorance in the public, but it doesn't reflect the hindu religion.

 

That story sounds horrible. What do you mean her "managers"? Sounds more to me like they're keeping her prisoner - or was it her idea?
Creepy, and stupid..... keeping a woman cooped up and claiming she doesn't need to go to the toilet.

 

I think she got enough fame and money that she could afford to keep her own pupils and managers, not the other way around.

 

Oh, okay I got it. She was a celebrity.

 

the probleme with religion in general, is that, there are priests, scriptures.... and all are not 100% pure. we know that with the inquisition for instance... and in other religions, there is a lot of scams and lies and greed as well. but because hinduism is so exotic for us westerners, we tend to make more perfect than it really is.

 

Laeyne,
What do you know of Hindu scriptures to claim that they are not pure?

 

All teachings are perfect and pure. Unfortunately all students are not. Eqwually sadly, there are enough who are not sincere students but are out to maske a quick buck. Its very easy to twist a teaching for that purpose.

 

Hang on a minute - all teachings are pure? That seems really not to be the case at all. There are numerous examples of teachings coming from so called gurus and others which are far from pure.

 

I meant scripture.

 

Even there I'd have to say I think some are more pure than others. There are for instance many question marks over the Bible - we know it was extensively edited, we know some of the letters of Paul are fakes etc. When one sees what was excluded - for instance the Nag Hammadi Gospels, it gives serious cause to think that it has been definitely shaped by humans in line with their own agendas and limited understanding.


The Koran also gives me personally much cause for concern.

With Hindu scriptures I don't think it's so much a question of purity, but of universality and clarity of expression. Some seem more universally relevant than others, which seem narrower and to cater more to particular schools.

 

I think you can read any scripture though with a positive outlook or looking for something to attack someone...I def. think a lot of the light or dark ends of it are based on the responsibility of the individual, the context of their life and political situation, and also the influences of the world around them...

...I will agree that I think that all scripture has the potential to be pure...but it is context that can make it not...

 

Oh yes - people certainly use scripture for their own ends - and no doubt that's because they have impure motives. They're looking more for justification for some political end or other, so they twist the meaning of scriptures.


I agree that a lot of it is dependent on context - and in a way, that's part of what seems to me a problem. What was good 1,000 years ago may not be good today. The eternal verities may be forever unchanging, but the level of human culture etc is constantly shifting.
So what people in earlier times thought good doesn't seem so great to us nowadays.

The trouble with rigid adherence to scriptures of old, or at least, to the ways in which they were understood in the past, is that I actually believe it goes directly contrary to the divine will that human life should be gradually be brought to perfection through the passage of the ages.
At the very least, I'd say each generation has to re-find the inner meaning for themselves, and understand it and how to apply it in the context of present day reality. We have to reject the misunderstandings of the past, or we will just repeat the same mistakes.

 

Hare Krishna!

Dear Andrew & Nicole,

Nice to see both of you here. I fully agree with Andrew and at the same time find Nicole simply wonderful. Our dear Nicole has gone miles ahead of us. Glory to the Lord ! Bhakti shows only the core and not the Bibhuties and a true bhakta like Nicole can see only that.
Yes Andrew, even the scriptures are different in qualities, absolutely no doubt about that. It is , I suppose, Lila only that they are like that. If we see only the core they are all same, otherwise they are different, one better than the other. It's like small temple and big temple, a beautiful one or a dilapidated one...... talk about the temples, differences will automatically come but talk about the deity inside, all will converge into one single opinion.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Yes, it is the core we need to find.
However, it's very easy for us to become entangled in that which is inessential, or meant only for a particular time and place.

It is divine love which is the core, and if we come to feel that, even a tiny bit, then we will know what to accept and what to reject.

 

I really couldn't agree with you more...I think that its important for us to take these core teachings as they are and see how we can understand them in the context of our own lives, our own situations, and what they mean to us as a generation in a changing world...I think if we re-evaluate and understand ...we can really use scriptures and teachings to help us in a practical manner in our lives everyday and the decisions we make ...

 

I kind of think people are the same way... we are always focused on what is different between ourselves and others...and I always wonder how things could change if we just stopped and asked ourselves what we have in common. What is really different about me and the man sitting next to me on the subway? What is the same? Don't we all want to be happy? Want love? Don't we all have the deity/Light within us? I almost think this people are just like scriptures...they have within them the potential for positivity and radiance ...but its how they deal with this potential ...whether they let it shine or cover it in ignorance of outward perception...

 

Let me throw in again a point that I have had to repeat over and over recently. In translations of a scripture the translator's bias and motives can completely change the meaning. For example Andrew and I recently were in a discussion where someone posted a rig veda sutra with a refrain translated "Have I not drunk soma" and made it his excuse for drug use. When I examined the sanskrit, I found the same line could just as easily be read, "Have I not become absorbed in God."

In Buddhist texts nirvana often becomes "extinction" when it really means something more like "desirelessness."

The King James Bible's "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you," became "the Kingdom of Haven is among you" in the NIV. What a difference a word makes!

I think this happens a lot with any scripture. The Koran is one that I suspect has been particularly molested by translators on a witch hunt.

To understand a scripture, I feel that one has to return to the original language and start there. That's not easy at all. The other alternative is to find a true master to interpret it for you. When such a one speaks, the scripture doesn't matter, her words stand by themself and their truth is known in the heart.

Also I believe that spiritual teachings of the world, couched though they may be in cultural and sociallanguage of the time, have a common aim of guiding the follower to the unchaning eternal self. Therefore, there is no reduction in their validity over time, provided we can get past the outer crust of cultural and social teachings. Like you said, Andrew, love will illumine, and when yuou have love and reverence for a text, it will reveal it's heart to you.