can anyone explain to me how predestination is even a possibility? besides the obvious question of what is the point, there remains the fact that the future does not even exist. The future is place in time ahead of where we are. that means it is purely theoretical. will tomorrow happen? no one knows. you can say it will. but it is one of those things that you really can't say for sure. if the future doesn't even exist, then how can God know what is going to happen? also, why do people think of God as male? why would God require a gender?
I don't believe in predestination, but if I did I'd probably argue it one of two ways: One would be to say that if someone makes robots programmed a certain way, knowing there's a certainty it's going to behave in a certain way, the creator could predetermine the future of the robot. It would even be possible to give the things "free will" by programming it so that the choices of a particular robot are unpredictable, but it is statistically certain most of them will screw up. Why any creator other than a mad scientist would do this is another question, which is why I reject Calvinism. Another approach might be the StarTrek alternative based on an interpretation of relativity theory's fourth dimension or possibly the idea of parallel universes. If we could really go back to visit Moses, we could presumably do the same for the future, and so could God. I find this to be completely farfetched, but some scientists take time travel seriously.
karma determines what your life will be structured as. The path can be predicted based upon past actions. "Time" does not really exist. It is a limitation of your brain that gives the illusion of time passing. You can only process the ultimate reality a piece at a time. There is only the present moment. Tomorrow never comes. As for God being a male, it is a symbol of power to the people of the day. It was a pretty rough time back when the scriptures were written. God, being such a hard thing to comprehend, is brought to life by familar symbolism. A father figure, who in those ancient times, was the pillar of strength in the family. His word was law. Any transgression of it was met head on. Its not hard to see "God the father" as being an authority figure. A stern one at that. And watchful over his "children". x
yeah time travel is total bullshit. that's all im gonna say about that. so, if God has no gender, what does that make him? genderless? if so, then this raises the question of are we really made in the image of God? These are just things i've been wondering about. plz post and leave your thoughts.
A lot of languages use gender specific nouns and articles. Spanish and French are probably the most common to the average american. Hebrew uses gender specific nouns and articles, and does not have a gender neutral article ('it'). So god, the word, is masculine, in say, the same way a table or the grand canyon is masculine. And predestination is an attempt to reconcile the idea that god knows everything with the unknown of the future. An all-knowing being must know what will happen in the future, otherwise it is not all-knowing...
I've heard predestination rationalised a few ways. I've also seen some sites where Calvinists defend that free-will exists. Most of them are to long to sum up, but most involve a cosmic time-travel by god. I think the issue of God's gender (even Jesus' v The Son's gender) deserves its own thread.
Also, the issue of pre-destination goes back much further then Calvin, to Saint Augustine, who it seems was the first to see the contradiction in an omniscient God and free will. He had the idea later repeated by Calvin that the elect are pre-destined, and were pre-destined before the creation. Hence no amount of moral effort, spiritual practice or belief will avail if you are not already pre-destined to be saved. This makes a total mockery out of the whole idea of choosing to follow Christ's teachings. It is also pointless under such a scheme to speak of a God of love. The only way I can see out of it would be to say that God chooses not to know the exact future but only the general ground plan. Or that eventually every soul will be saved. This was the idea of another early Church Father, Origen. Of course, if you believe that, the idea of eternal damnation has to be rejected, hence Origen was considered heretical for many centuries.
Jesus gave us a test for telling right beliefs from wrong ones: "By their fruits shall ye know them." Has anybody met a Calvinist who didn't seem like they just finished eating a bowl of lemons?
Ha - they are a dour bunch. BTW - myself I prefer Origen over Augustine/Calvin. I like the idea that eventually eveyone will be saved. It fits with a God of infinite love.
Check out Weslyan/Arminian Theology. It makes some much more sense and gives a much more complete picture of God and His love for us.
Actually, Augustine argued that man had free will, but it was so compromised by The Fall that we are only able to choose sin. He saw free will as a set of scales and sin as a lead block on one side, making the otherwise fine scales always lean towards sin. It was his belief that only through the power of God could man be saved from his sinful nature. He likened the sinful nature of man as a serious illness and God as the a.) doctor and b.) the cure. I personally do not agree w/ his interpretation (he bases it on Matthew 20) b/c that eliminates personal responsibility. People can do whatever and blame it on their evil nature, not as a choice they made. Pelagius was the opposing view, but his ideas did not catch on as much as Augustine's. Personally, it seems that Augustine's view proves one or all of the following as false: God as all-knowing, all-powerful, or all good. Why did God tempt Adam and Eve? One possibility is that he didn't know they would fall, he was unable to create a perfect image of himself or man's faults reflect his faults, or he knew what choice they would make and set them up for failure. Something doesn't seem right, and Pelagius argued that God would not demand something his creations could not do, so by knowing the strengths of his creation, he only asks of man what can be done- assuming the three qualities of God. Peace and love
no one can possibly guess God's plan for us. it is something that would transcend all of our combined imaginations. im sure he knows what he is doing though. = )
That did not stop people from trying, though- Augustine is only second in influence to Paul in Western Christianity. Most of the Protestant and Catholic beliefs can be traced to one of those two names. Peace and love
well i'd have to say that the biggest influence in christianity would be jesus. lol no, but i get what your saying. even if i think paul is a sack of shit. but the question is, even though they were so influential, does that make them right?
Anti-sex later in life. I think he screwed arould quite a bit in his youth. Wasn't he the one who said "Lord make me chaste, but not yet"?
Here's my take on predestination: If one were to completely understand all the forces in the universe and were able to process the information quickly enough, then one could predict the entire future with complete accuracy just by knowing where everything is for one split second. For example, take a universe without life. If you can understand all the physical forces of attraction, repulsion, friction, and everything else, you have complete knowledge of what could happen, given certain circumstances. If, for one second, you know exactly where every single atom, electron, and quark is in this system, you have those certain circumstances laid out and can predict everything that will ever happen in this universe. Now in our universe, it is quite the same thing. Therefore, everything you or I or anyone else ever does is predestined. It had to happen that way, because words are just vibrations, thoughts are electrical charges, and emotions and actions are very much controlled by your electrical brain. The thing is, unless there is someone out there who is omniscient, nobody knows what is destined to happen.
