The Avadhuta Gita of Dattatreya

I have been accused of having a god complex by some. My views are unlike most. But I found this wonderful piece that explains much.

I beg your attention to read it. Discuss?

http://www.starwon.com.au/~soham/avadhuta/chap01.htm




x

 

Dear Xexon, it is a very nice text indeed, very enjoyable.

But if you are willing to provide this text to better explain that 'you' do not have a God complex, then you are indeed proving that you have a god complex.

Why? Because the argument begs the question... if there is truly a realization of the undivisible Self, why the "I"?

This distinction between 'you' and the 'world', or 'some' and 'most' etc... this seperation which is intrinsic in your words itself assumes a seperate identity from the Self. Hence, it shows that there is no true realization of the Self, for when there is a realization of the Self, there is no other.

With that said, do not strain yourself. If you try to dissolve artificially that which is you into the higher self, it will not give you peace. Enlightenment is attained when the the "I" truly dissolves into the Self. Then, there is no need for further discussion of anything. However, if you artificially try to force this dissolution, it furthur deludes you into a pseudo godlike complex which makes you frustrated at the end.

The "I" cannot be the "Self" because it assumes an already established duality. So, how do we attain the dissolution of I into the Self? One way is through devotion. , through love and through surrender to the Higher Self.

Keep your "I" yet remain as a lover to the Self, this way, long for the dissolution into the Self. Treat Self as your God, as your spouse, as your father, your mother, your family. Then, long to meet that Self, then the mind will purify gradually and it will dissolve the I into the Self eventually.

So, follow your duties in life with the best of your ability for God, know God to be the Higher self of all beings, love Him/Her, cherish that Self, your mind will purify, you may pass through different stages where mind still holds on to this world. It may even grant you more and more capabilities or abilities, but you stick to the plan, you are only doing it to meet your beloved Self, then the purified mind will completely dissolve itself into the Self. Realization of the Self will be complete, you will lose your "god complex".

 

Well, as I'm not into mind melding, the use of language and writing have to come into play.

Don't worry about the structure of the sentences. I understand what you're saying, but unless the human side of me does the writing, how would I communicate with you?

Strain myself?

Does a flute get worn out by the wind?



x

 

When the Self is realized, there will be no reason to communicate, because only the Self will exist. This type of realization is achieved through different methods for different people. Those who take the path of knowledge , try to achieve this with the help of the mind. For me however, it is not possible... because as you can see that "I" is intrinsic in my statements, it is deeply ingrained in my consciousness.

Therefore, as a follower of bhakti marga, a devotee tends to trust his God (Self) and surrenders to Him. For me, the Self reflects itself as Sriman Narayana or Krishna. For you , it may reflect as something else, but it is a bit early for you to claim that there has been a realization of the Self.

 

How about in the case of teachers etc who have realized yet still try to communicate what they have realized to others? Jesus, Buddha, Ramakrishna and so on?

 

I suppose upon realization of the self, one could just instantly dissolve into the cosmos, but why waste a perfectly good ongoing life?

As long as it continues, why not share a little light?

When realization comes, it may be like a thunderclap from heaven, or the slow unfolding of a flower's petals. Either way, you don't lose consciousness. You gain it. The personal self is still there. It stands ready to serve if called upon, but it no longer has the helm. Its main function now is communications and social functions.

Action still takes place. Interaction with society still takes place. The difference is the state of non-attachment with which it is done.

There is no further need to accumulate wealth or desire things, yet one cannot be a burden upon society and live as a beggar. So there is the need of working and paying bills like everyone else.

There are certainly degrees of enlightenment. People ripen just like apples on a tree do.

How bland the tree would be if it weren't for all the ripening apples that cling to it. These apples no longer need the tree, but make it beautiful as long as they're still attached to it.



x

 

They had a reason to communicate about whether they were enlightened or not. The focus was not on the smaller self, but on the truth.

 

The idea of a physical dissolution does not do justice to the actual dissolution of the jiva into the Self. I am not saying you should give up life, I meant quite the opposite if you read it again.

 

Jedi said

So it would stand to reason that any attempt at communication would immediately mean the loss of the sense of only the self existing.
If only the self exists then there is nothng separate from it one could call 'an ongoing life'.
There would be simply nothing there with which to communicate.

It would hardly be described as 'awakening' if it entailed loss of consciousness.

So what was its function before?

 

exactly, its purpose is to meet the Self, but once it has met it, there is no point in having the lower self.

lol, ofcourse, when you turn this around , this means that the fact that the lower self is being recognized (through communication) is reason enough that Self has not been realized. Unless ofcourse we assume that the lower self is not an illusion and that lower self can never be equal to the Higher Self.

So in order to suggest any actual importance of the lower self, xexon has to agree that he is not God.

 

let's wait and see......

 

You stand outside of the personal self. It doesn't go anywhere. Where can it go?

But the pure spirit of what you are does not have to identify with it anymore. It becomes a tool rather than the throne of your identity. You've got a new awareness now. And a new, larger kingdom. One that swallows the old kingdom.

But a part of you wants to stay and play a while longer.

And often, there is residual karma to be burned off still. Just because the self is starting to be realized does not mean you're free to go.

Got to clear that bar tab first.

And until you do, the view is still better in the hills than down in the valleys.

Yes, I am God. We are all made from this same clay. To call oneself God from this perspective is not a boast of ego. It is a spiritual truth.

If one's personal idea of God involves a deity or worship thereof, I can see the point that to declare oneself God could be offensive. But understand in my world, there are no deities.

Just a bubble inside an ocean. And inside that bubble is all that has ever been created.

Personally, I come here for the pizza.

Its one of my earthly anchors. Otherwise, I'd just float away...




x

 

I'm surprised by the Judeo-Christian metaphor of 'clay'.

But if I had a big lump of clay and broke off a tiny fragment it wouldn't be correct to identify the small piece as the original lump.

If you are God, then you would be omniscient and you would know all about beings on other planets, the future - absolutely everything. You could presumably tell me the exact second and circumstances of my own death.
Since you don't have this knowledge claims to be God are futile.
You could say you are a human being who has had some experience of spiritual realities and perhaps that would be more correct.

Also, the use of 'clay' here is a bit of a misuse of metaphors, as in the Christian myth God first crerated the clay and then moulded Adam from it. It isn't that God is the original clay.

 

Ahhh, you wish to put conditions on God? Can't be done. Although the mind will try it's best anyway.

Clay would be correct from a mental image point of view.

All of creation is constructed from the same base energy. This energy is given form by the will to do so. A love of creation.

As a non dualist, this world has two elements to it, creation and destruction, but also as a non dualist, I pull back to see creation just like a bubble in an ocean called God.

All that is within this bubble, was synthesized from the ocean itself.

It's never been apart from it, except for that thin skin that an air bubble has. And that too was formed from the ocean.




x

 

Well, if God doesn't know everything, it isn't God you mean.

And actually. you are as guilty as me of putting conditions on God with your attempts at explanation such as

Your saying God is an ocean - that is a condition. A less specific condition than omniscience. I'll grant, but nonetheless a condition.

 

Anything other than brahman is illusion, therefore your answer to "where can the personal self go?" is that the personal self wasn't there to begin with, only brahman has existed.
In support of this the avadut Gita says, "Brahman alone is, as pure consciousness. In truth there is no jar, and no jar-space, no embodied soul, nor its nature. " (Avadut gita verse 32)
"Thou, O Atman, wast never born, nor didst thou ever die. The body was never thine. The Shruti (revealed Scriptures) has often said: "This is all Brahman." (Avadut Gita verse 13) .

There is no old kingdom. So, why cling to the old self when brahman has been realized. The other alternative is that you are deluding yourself into thinking it has been realized xexon, when it never happened.

Avadut Gita says the following, "Atman, of which the high Yogis speak, most subtle, beyond perception, without attributes, must be realized step by step, and not by sudden violence." (Avadut Gita verse 12) .

It happens when you realize Atman step by step, realization takes time. It takes exploration into the spiritual sky, it doesn't happen right away.

It is a spiritual truth that needs to be realized, not proclaimed.

You cannot give up earthly attachments so easily, first you need to come back to the plane of reality, simply by rejecting the world around you , you cannot reach any truth, it will only serve to delude you, and by you, I mean xexon.

 

You are mistaken , according to the scripture you suggest here, there is no creation, it does not exist, only Brahman does.

The idea that there is a creation and destruction and the supposed metaphor of bubble is used to explain this phenomena is enough to say that all is not brahman within your mind.

 

When you're faced with the task of putting inner experiences into words, You have to use things which are familar to the people you're talking with.

I can't always find the words to do this very well.

The best I can do is plant mental imagery along with the words so that fewer words are needed. You'll absorb the ideas much better with pictures than endless pages of scripture.

So if I'm using lots metaphors and parables, there's a reason. But they're just words. You shouldn't tie yourself in a knot over them. We can split them into a hundred different what if's, but what will be gained by endless discourse over them?

Basic concepts are all that are needed to walk a path. Let philosphers chew on the details. Its where death will likely find them anyway. Thinking.

One finds God by being able to see with the heart.

Even the best written scriptures cannot do justice to what you see with a heart. It must be experienced. And the beauty of it is that anyone can. And when they come back from that experience, they can't walk on water or turn lead into gold.

But if they could help you along in your own spiritual path, would that not be worthy of being called a miracle?



x

 

haha xexon, I am glad we came to the same conclusion.

 

mY dear friend - at at last you express some modesty!

I am thrilled and extremely pleased. I have never doubted your true sincerity, I have suspected you of arrogance. I now see that I am wrong.

We may not concur in our expression of the truth we live and see it- but make no mistake, it is one and the same truth. As is the truth our brother Jedi expresses. We should try to see where we agree - where we can agree that is, on a form of expression which takes everybody's view into account.

All of us love God - of that I am sure. We should therefore try to be an example to those who do not yet know, believe or have faith.

I hope u will pray for me as I pray for u.

Love & peace,

BBB.