My brand of Socialism

I didn't go through every post on this topic, forgive me if anyone else ate through this...

Communist/Socialist usually have a problem with me due to my wanting to "be my own man". I'm an independant thinker and I make good money through skills I've learned so far in my life.

 

Exactly. Thats why this system will never work. You managed to get ahead by wisely using your skills, and ambition, and by studying and working (good for you). Sadly, there are lots of people out there who are too lazy to bother with any of that, and think society should take care of them.

 

Before I begin, a little background info: My parents are both from very poor backgrounds. You know the story: several kids sharing one bed, etc. My dad trained as a plumber, and is now self employed. He works by himself, but it is in a sense, a small business. When I was growing up my parents had just bought their home, so with the bills, mortage and everything they were on a budget.

I wouldn't call our family poor, as we had food, clothes, a home, and access to health care, like the vast majority of people in the west. Some people think they are poor because they have to play a Nintendo instead of an XBox, or because they can't have brand name clothes.

I went to college and now work in administration. My current job isn't very important, and I've done more challenging things in the past, but I'm fine with it for now. If I don't like it, I can study, find another job, or do voluntary work to gain experience in other areas.

My workmates have been there longer, and do more important things, and get paid more than me. I'm not bitter about it though. I earn enough to live on and have enough left over to buy luxuries with. I even go on holiday every other year to Hong Kong to visit friends.

Now, the company I work for is a local transport company. My employer started it up about 30 years ago with a loan from the bank, and its now a company of a few hundred employees. He's worth about £2million now. Good for him - he worked for it, he earned it.

Now, onto the post:

Who does the bourgeois include? My boss and his transport company? My dad and his small plumbing business? Where do you draw the line? Taking either of their businesses away from them would be THEFT. They worked hard and earned what they have. Why should it be redistributed to layabouts who are too lazy to do anything about their situations?

Here in the UK, we already have unions, and they are involved with government. My union is a transport workers union. In my previous job, I could have joined a communication workers union. Officials would have to be elected by the people. I assume you mean the leaders of each union are elected by members of that union, instead of voting based on geographical area. What about people with no union, like housewives, or nuns?

By financial institutions, is that banks, or all businesses? If you close the banks, what happens to my savings, that I worked hard for, and didn't squander like a lot of other people do? I can't exactly keep all my money at home in cash.

Where is the line drawn? How do you decide when a small business gets big enough to "not be allowed"? What about my boss's transport company? What if my dad's business grew? Would he have to start giving out money to people? How is that fair? He worked for it. They didn't. What's wrong with earning money to enjoy your final years? Nobody is forced to buy what that corporation provides. There are other sources, or other companies. If its not worth it, they don't have to buy it. I don't understand the problem here. Where are you planning on getting all this land that you want to hand out? Does everyone get an equal share? What about farmers? Do they have to give up their land? What about land held by councils? What if new homes need to be built? Do you take the land back again? Or will some land be withheld as it is now?

Surely thats a decision best left for the people and medical professionals, not you.

Then how do plan to set up this system then? It won't happen without infringing people's rights.

You do understand that forced labour is slavery, and that freedom from slavery is a human right, right?

Bad bad bad. What if your country couldn't produce something you need? What if you have a surplus that another country needs? What if you people want access to luxuries produced by another country?

Sounds a bit like what we have now, at least here in the UK.

What if he wants a better car? or doesn't like the colour? Currently people have freedom of choice. How will the state provide what he wants? Why can't he just buy his own?

If thats your ideal state, then I'm terrified. If you support a one world government, then fine, but are you prepared to wait the thousands of years it takes to achieve? It can't be done without public consent. Expansion into space is inevitable anyway.

Huh? There's no such thing as a policy of allowing illegal immigration, otherwise it becomes legal. What about asylum seekers? They do not cross legally, but have a good reason to do so. Will they go to your prison camps too, and do forced labour?

What does that mean? If a neighbouring country was offering your farmers a better quality of life and they were leaving in droves, would you stop them? Did you know people have the right to change their nationality?

Thats a right you can't give or take at will, regardless of what the state needs.

We have that in the UK now. Free schooling, and free college for school leavers.

Surely there would need to be some kind of curriculum to bring people up to a certain level of education. What are you going to do if nobody studies something your country desperately needs? What about kids - they would need to be all given the same training until they can read, write, and do basic math. Else, how else can they choose a subject? What you describe sounds like college here in the UK. We can apply for whatever we want.

You mean... just like we have now?

Who? You mean there is another group of people? Another "class" if you will, who will not be able to be involved in government? You realise everybody has a right to be involved in their government, don't you?

The "bourgeois"? Oh please. I personally know a girl from my rural town who trained to be a doctor. Anyone can do it. Anyone can go to university and get these qualifications, assuming they have the will, and aren't lazy freaks who expect it to be handed to them. Politicians aren't all rich people either. I've no idea how it works in the US, but here there are no "bourgeois" who get all the best jobs.

Its not up to the state to give out luxuries. Anyone who works should be able to spend their spare cash on whatever luxuries they want.

Now here's a thought. What is this "prestige"? You can't tell people who to admire, because its subjective. You can't teach it either, which sounds like brainwashing if you ask me. How exactly does this prestige effect their lives in any meaningful way?

Like my dad for example. I know sure as hell nobody is going to take it off him.

As it is now you mean? Nobody here in the UK is forced to join the military.

What oath? People can choose allegiance to whoever they want. What if the people decide they don't like this form of government and want something else?

Again, illegal immigration is not allowed to exist, it just does. How will you lock the borders? You can't force people to serve as border guards. Where will you get enough staff? What will you do with people trying to cross?

Whoah, hang on. It sounds like you want to take away a person's basic human right to change their nationality, or move anywhere within their nations borders.

Surveillance!!!?? You mean like in North Korea where they force you to go everywhere with a guide? You won't find enough employees to cope. Either you will have to allow them to travel on their own, or you will restrict the number of tourists, which means breaking the nation's economy.

And what about inventors who invent something for themselves. How will their patents be protected? The state can't violate that right.

All people are great, whether they are nationals or otherwise. How do you plan to run a strong closed economy? Most countries get a lot of revenue from tourism. Money will be changing hands. What about when your citizens go abroad, and take your nations money to spend elsewhere?


(TO BE CONTINUED)

 

(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

Sounds dodgy. Why would the force need to be paramilitary? What crimes are they expected to solve that require heavy firepower? Please elaborate on what would be crimes in this "great nation". What about peaceful protests?

Political correctness? What do you mean? How does this effect "efficiency"? Please elaborate.

Again, slavery = bad.

Heh. Won't happen.

How will you pay for free buses and trains if people don't pay taxes? What will you do when your citizens decide to buy cars from aborad, instead of ones made at home?

Sounds like you're talking about an internet and and intranet. Both already exist.

Easier said than done, lol. Look at the way other attempts to reach Communism have turned out. Just out of interest, how would you stop it from happening? Would you keep an eye on the candidates, and only allow "state-approved" candidates from standing?

People already have rights, but your suggestions would involve scrapping a lot of them.

Everyone in the UK already has free healthcare, paid for by taxes. How do you plan to raise the money without them? I have nothing against Eastern medicine, but much of it has not been proven to work, so will all Eastern medicine be included, or just the ones you can prove to work?

Exactly as we have now. People work, pay for essentials, and can use any left over money for luxuries. What's the problem with this exactly, and how is your solution different?

You're expecting a boom? In a closed economy? With restricted tourism? What happens when there is a crash?

Using spare cash from where? The closed economy, or non-existent taxes? Where does it come from?

Like what? You can't just print more money if thats what you're thinking.

Distribute who's money? Who's making it? Where does this mysterious money come from? The people don't get blamed for failed allocations anyway. What's different about that?

Nothing new here, except you'll need to work out how to pay for it.

>>>>>FLASHING RED LIGHT<<<<<

Manipulate how? A closed economy has no economic power. You will have no other kind of influence. Sounds extremely dodgy.

Nothing new here.

If its free then you can't decide the main belief, lol. Science is not a belief system anyway.

>>>>> ANOTHER RED LIGHT <<<<<

You really haven't thought this through have you. Sounds like your country just became one giant corporation with every citizen a shareholder. You are more capitalist than you think.

Ahahahahaha... producing more money... ahahahaha.... I think you need to do some research about this. If it was that easy, don't you think people would be doing it? Buddy, people have tried it, and it devalues the economy as a whole. I remember reading about Germany after WW1. They printed so much money, that the paper was worth more than the currency. Kids were using bank notes to make kites for crying out loud.

Yeah, we already do that here, as much as we can. See, money isn't infinite, so there are a few shortfalls. By the way, when you say "taken care for", do you mean allowing them to live in their own homes, with their own carers? Thats what we have here, unless someone is a significant danger to themselves or others.

Well thank god for that. There's still a chance for you to fix it.

Just for fun, here's a list of some of the human rights your suggestions violate:

So... in short I think you need to think about this a bit more.

It seems to me that some people just have a chip on their shoulder, because some people are better off financially. Well boo hoo. At least you're not living in Darfur, or North Korea. You have so much freedom its unbeleivable. Don't like your job? You can train, study, or find another one. Everybody is free to do so. Nobody is a slave to anyone. You will never get more than a handful of people to agree to your principles, because they violate many of our rights, and some are totally illegal.

 

When I went back and reread the inital post it seems the poster wants to make another North Korea. The leadership of North Korea think they have this great thing going on, the people are ignorant of anything else, and the rest of the laughs at them. Personally I belive if I were in a communist country of this sort I'd either be in a prison or executed, as re-education wouldn't work on me, plus I'd be telling everyone there is a better way. I have my own agenda, beliefs and way of life.

 

Well i think in the right hands any system of government can work the problem is that all people are corrupted by any power they can get their grubby little paws on. At least communism is straight forward no hiding behind the supposed freedoms of capitalism. Everyone should have the same food housing water and right to enjoy life. No one should be able to have a private jet and a gold toilet. IF you think they should then you probably need a moment to pull your head out of your ass right now. ................ OK now that its out listen to this your an ignorant maggot that deserves to be buried in the material wealth you seek fuck capitalism and those that seek to indulge in it......... Everyone else peace and love be with you and yours fight the powers that be if at all possible.