HipForums should exile the assholes

Free Speech is not the right to say anything. As was mentioned earlier there are many things that a person has no right to say such as yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Free Speech was meant to allow for the interchange of ideas, so that no idea would be lost or suppressed.

When verbal abuse replaces thoughts and ideas then Free Speech has been done away with and thoughts and ideas are being suppressed.

When someone is verbally abusive, I always ask myself; is there an idea in there somewhere or is he just riding rough shod over other people’s ideas and suppressing their free speech?

 

This is bizarre. Are you actually advocating a restriction to freedom of speech? To advocate a restriction of freedom of speech is to advocate the destruction of it. And it scares me to hear someone talking like that. I, personally, could never take freedom of speech for granted. I'm with BraveSirRubin on this one.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

 

It is a fine thing to talk in absolutes but another thing all together to put them in to practice. If in fact you or I where alone on this planet we could have the Free speech that is spoken of. We could say anything, anytime, anywhere, and it wouldn’t be a problem. But when a second person is introduced that all changes, the two can not both have absolute Freedom of speech. Either one can have absolute Freedom of speech and the other no Freedom of speech or you both can have relative Freedom of speech.

Like in the old example; If a person is alone he has the absolute right to swing his fist around anywhere he wants but if a second person is there he has only a relative right or freedom to swing his fist, that right ends at the nose of the other person.

Like wise two people can have Freedom of speech only if they allow each other to have it or one person who feels he has absolute Free of Speech can use it to trample on the Freedom of speech of the other person and prevent him from being able to exercise his Freedom of speech.

So which is it, some people will be allowed to have absolute Freedom of speech and some no Freedom of speech at all OR we all have relative Freedom of Speech?

 

Which brings to question the whole concept of freedom. Freedom isn't about doing whatever you want, at least not when others are involved, it's about respect.

 

I agree.

Part of what threatens our freedom is succeeding generations in general tending to lack the class necessary to properly handle freedom. This does not mean that every young person is like this... I've met and gained tons of respect for a few folks younger than 20 but I can't deny what I observe around me.

 

I have noticed that some of the younger people here do not truly understand what free speech is and think that ALL SPEECH is free speech.

No, it is not. Nothing could be further from the truth. All speech is not "free speech", nor should it be defended.

Hate Speech is not worth defending.

Fraud is not worth defending.

Deceit is not worth defending.

Some "free speech" is not TRUE "free speech", it is the opposite.

Some speech SHOULD BE restricted for the saftey and respect of others in society.

Because flesh and blood is more important than your right to say something.

 

I think today's youth, on the whole, are a lot more respectful and open minded than they have been in prior generations. I'm amazed at how cool my kids are, relative to the asshole I was when I was their age, but, then, my wife and I are providing a far more supportive and mutually respectful environment for them than our parents provided us when we were growing up.

 

You're making this way too complicated.

I think that you're failing to realize that there is, of course, a vast difference between spewing hateful words and spewing bullets.

We can't build a world based around our ideals no matter how good they sound because therein lies a road leading to the destruction of all of our freedom. We can't censor things simply because they upset us. Nobody should have that kind of control. What we can do is make what we think is right (and wrong) known.

 

I think the pickings are pretty thin. I HAVE encountered some incredibly classy and respectful young people but most that I've observed seem to operate from a sense of entitlement. I do concede that my observations may be a regional anomaly so I can't feel completely comfortable contradicting what is clearly an observation on your part.

There are all types represented here and the sense of entitlement shows through, but about as much with some of the older folks as with the younger. On one hand it's nice that people feel at home here but they forget that this is someone else's site and quite a few don't seem to respect that.

 

I hope everyone here isn't assuming that I am a rude person because, really, that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm the kind of person who wants to please everyone. I live to make others happy even if that means sacrificing myself personally for others. I simply believe in freedom and fight hard when I see people advocating the rapidly dwindling amount of freedom left in the United States and the world as a whole. I want to have the option to live without being bothered by over-governing. I believe freedom can be found in simplicity.

Sure, this site is someone else's site and I'd respect any rules on someone's personal website as I would in their business or on their property but this site is supposed to be exempt from posting rules because it is labeled a Free Speech site, right? That means that I'm allowed to state my opinion on censorship just as I'm allowed to state my opinion on anything.. even if someone disagrees with it. If it's a Free Speech site except for ... then it simply shouldn't be labeled Free Speech.

 

Delusions of entitlement. I agree that's the problem in our egocentric culture, and of course our kids reflect that to some extent, because that's the role model they get from the "adults", but I think that kids have more access to information these days, which empowers them to make more informed decisions. Now, the fact that adults are more sociopathic these days is a different story, don't get me started on that one, we all need to repeat kindergarten so we can learn some manners. Like adults, if we treat our kids with respect, they respond in kind.

And the bullshit. Obviously, the anonymity of the internet opens doors to lunatics who wanna come on here and mis-represent themselves as hippies, and there's a lot of those people out there, but they show their asses soon enough.

How does the requirement that we treat each other with respect limit free speech?

 

There is a fair number of younger folks who show class and from my perspective, you do seem to be one of them.

Much of my observation is from real life... work situations as well as on the internet.

 

She has nothing to worry about, being a person of dignity.

So my other question is, how is it you feel limited, if nothing you have to say is an issue?

 

I feel limited for fear that restrictions on freedom will obscure the meaning of freedom altogether.

 

Free speech and most of the constitution is misunderstood by the masses.

Freedom of speech means you can believe what you want, and express your beliefs by acts or words, but it does not give you the right to harass anyone. For example, I think homosexuality is wrong, YET, I have gay friends! I never harass or insult them. It's my opinion that it is wrong, not a fact, and I never force opinion on anyone. Free speech means I can say "I think it's wrong," not "It is wrong and you should all die." They're mostly wonderful people, actually. I just disagree with them on one thing, and that one thing should not come between us. These "ass holes" you specify, they should learn that lesson. The world would be far better if that were to occur.

So say what you believe, but refrain from insults, make sure you let it be known it is your opinion and not definite fact, and remove hostility. That's free speech. After all, if we were to take freedom literally, we could rob and murder because that would be full freedom. Freedom that we want is not the true definition of the word. Freedom means we can believe what we want and let it be known that we believe it without being attacked or hated for it.

Love,
Chris

 

First of all, madlizard, I do not think you are rude and have enjoyed your thoughts on this subject. In fact I think that the dialogue that has taken place here for the most part has been a fine example of free speech, a give and take, allowing each to have their say.

But we must define our terms, freedom, liberty, justice and peace have all been misused as catch words, to stir emotions, so people will go and fight a war in their name without even knowing what they mean or how they apply. To avoid that let me tell you what I mean when I say Freedom.

When I talk about Freedom, I do not mean that a person has the right to do any thing they want. A person is not free to murder another person because that takes away that person’s Freedom. So when I talk about Freedom I talk about relative Freedom. Meaning that everyone has the same amount of freedom and that no one has the right to infringe on the freedom of others. Yes that means Freedom has restrictions such as was stated, no one has the right to murder someone.

So what does that have to do with Free Speech, It means that no one has the right to use their Free Speech to take away the Free Speech of another.

So if a person takes away the Freedom of another by murder society takes away their Freedom. Likewise if a person is trying to take away a person’s Free speech then their Free speech is forfeit.

 

Our minds should be free so there shouldn't be stereotypical views?

 

Can anyone help me find my Free Speech? I seem to have misplaced it and I can't find it anywhere!

 

I thought I had some, but it seems to be expired.

 

I really think it's

better to let people

have thier views,

and voice your own

opposing one where

you see fit rather

than trying to say what

should or should not be said. If

some one is just being

annoying, then use

the ignore button,

but things like

racism and homophobia

can not be overcome

with suppression, but

by oppostion in free

and open discussion.