When should it be okay to have an abortion?

"Being pregnant 20 years ago with MaximusXXX" wasn't a poll option, I would think that was an excellent opportunity to abort.

 

I think with that statement you just fell lower than me on the principles scale.

 

Someone seems to harbor a lot of male guilt. By your logic women should have no say in discussions about circumcisions. But everyone's oppinions matter and everyone should be able to voice them. How else can we grow intelectually?

 

i dont cuss, but you have no CLUE how hard it was not to when i saw this. firstly, NEVER use god as an excuse when you're talking about murder, because then we might as well start up a jihad while we're at it. firstly, they were doing censuses and such things, not determining the value of human life. secondly, notice that it says "from a month old." these are children that are ALREADY BORN. month old babies. then according to you, god completely condones infantacide up to a month of age. i imagine god is as pissed off right now as i am.

 

god completely condones infanticide up until the age of one month (or at least doesn't punish it, kind of like how pot seeds are legal in canada).
the god you read about in the old testament is very different from the god you read about in magazines or watch on television.
he's a sick f*cked up bastard.
that and the infant mortality rate was so god damned high that it wasn't 'worth it' to count children as alive in the sense that odds are they weren't going to live past their first month.

and in both cases he's making an effort to value human life, and in both cases babies under 1 month are not included...

so, yeah.


I don't believe in any of it mind you, just always thought it strange that some people who take the bible as their moral set are so vehemently against abortion.

 

LOL, in the Old Testament if I remember right, Soloman's crown is taken away by God ( as King of the Jews ) because he fails to kill ALL of a tribe, I forget, he was suppose to kill ALL of them and he left one go and that didn't sit too well with God, LOL.

 

I beleive abortion is always wrong in any sense no matter what the circumstances, and here is why:

1.) It is a living being. This isn't a question it is truth that just gets denied and thrown aside as strictly religious thinking. It has a heartbeat (at least after a few weeks), it has all the components of a human being, and it is most deffinately aliving thing. Next, if it is alive, it is a human being because it contains all the correct DNA and after a few weeks, all the features of one.

2.) Calling it "Pro-Choice" is deceitful... It is a woman's choice what to do with her body, yes, I completely agree with this! However, the woman had SEVERAL choices before she got pregnant: a.) She chose to have sex and not just do some mutual masturbation or give oral or something... b.) She chose to let the guy put it in without a condom or birth control, or even without pulling out (not always effective, but better than NOTHING). c.) She chose NOT to take the morning after pill to keep the fetus from forming. She had a lot of choices before hand, to deal with her body that didn't involve killing a living being.

3.) The arguement regarding "Well, what about cases of rape and incest?". Look at the statisitcs those don't even account for 1 single percent of abortions that occur! Many of the women who suffer through those pains realize that what happened was bad, but it isn't the fetus's fault it happened, so why make the child pay for it?

4.) Those who argue against adoption as an option: My brother and his wife are in the process of adopting a kid... There are no babies left for them to adopt. There is a WAITING LIST to adopt babies! They have no problem finding a loving home! The ones who have problems are the ones who are above 5 years old, who went into the adoption service after 5 years old!

5.) It teaches young women to live a life with no consequences... "Oh that one night stand with some creepy stranger got me knocked up... Oh well, I will just get rid of the baby because it inconveniances me!"

6.) Dr. Ron Paul delivered over 4,000 babies and said that there was not a single case where he had to even think about the possibility of abortion to save the life of the mother, or even saw it nessecarry at all.

 

To me, the relevant questions are: (1) when does the fetus feel pain? and (2) when does the fetus have awareness? I think it's difficult to argue that either of these things begins at conception, but it's also hard to argue that they haven't occurred well before the time of birth. Neurological and brain development, not heart and "features", should be the focus. This eliminates fretting about the rights of blastocysts in Petri dishes, or charges against women who use the "morning after" pill. By the way, how do you feel about the right to die?

 

quite simply; when no other available option would cause less (total, to all involved) suffering.

(the avoidance of causing suffering is the litmus test of ALL moral and ethical questions. there really is no other morality.)

=^^=
.../\...

 

Would you apply the same rule to infanticide or to the decision to pull the plug on a dying person who always expressed a desire to be kept alive at all costs?

 

One problem I had with the poll was the cutoff given for the beginning of the fetal stage. Isn't it usually week 8?

 

This is all bullshit.

Basically what you're saying is that you think women have abortions for selfish reasons. That is sooo not the truth. A woman should have the right to choose.

 

Why is a heartbeat the deciding factor? It seems to me we have to clarify the ethical system we're going by & make the decision as to what threshold of development gives an embryo moral significance. Conception is a significant threshold, because at that point the embryo has the chromosomes that will make it a distinctive person, and if unhindered has the capacity to develop into a baby. If we think these characteristics are in themselves important, it's reasonable to say abortion should be unavailable from that point. Certainly, there's life involved, and it's human if it has human DNA. I can see how people could regard it as valuable or "sacred" material. When we're talking about the embryo or fetus as a "person" with rights that can trump a mother's choice, though, it seems hard to me to confer that status on a blastocyst. If there are rights involved other than hers, they're God's or society's rights. Implantation in the uterus is another event that could be taken as as significant from the standpoint of embryonic stability.

But some philosophers and early church fathers believed that the life wasn't fully human at that point because "ensoulment" occurred later, and of course utilitarians see the capacity to feel pain as critical. As I understand it, an embryo begins to develop the rudiments of a brain at 4 to 5 weeks, shows brain activity at six weeks, has pain sensors at 7 weeks. Some experts argue that the cognitive experience of pain requires further development of nerve pathways and higher brain functions over 12 to 28 weeks. Another consideration, that I have trouble relating to but is important to the courts, is when does the fetus become "viable", or capable of surviving outside the mother?

 

I feel this abortion debate is ridiculous. If you believe abortion is murder, then don't have an abortion! Not everyone shares your religious/ethic beliefs; let others decide for themselves based on their beliefs! I am Buddhist and wouldn't have an abortion, but I believe that women should have the right to choose b/c not everyone shares my beliefs! Most Buddhists don't eat meat, but you don't hear them criticizing people who eat meat or try to ban others from eating meat! That is our opinion and it should only apply to the people who hold that belief; not everyone has the same beliefs.

One thing that makes me sick is fanatics who believe it is wrong to have an abortion siting that it is murder, and then they go murder doctors who perform abortions. I thought you said that murder was wrong, even if the being isn't fully developed and born, but you can murder beings that are fully sentient, alive, breathing air, and have their own families? WTF?!? That is SO hypocritical- either murder is wrong or it's not. You can't have it both ways (okay to murder adults, but wrong to kill fetuses).

Once again, if you believe abortion is murder and murder is wrong, don't have an abortion. Don't hold others to your belief system b/c not everyone believes the same things!

(Another thing that irritates me; people who believe abortion is wrong but state sponsored executions are okay- but that's another thread)

Peace and love

 

Most of the time, the dying person left others w/ their wishes. Now, on the flip side, what about a person who is dying and DOESN'T want to be kept alive? Someone slowly dying of cancer and no pain killers reduce the pain and they will suffer for another year?

Our society is neither savage nor wise. Half measures of the curse of it- doctor assisted suicide is illegal, but it is perfectly legal to remove the feeding tube, leaving that person to slowly die from dehydration, which can take a week or longer? Who suffers more, the person given a lethal cocktail by a doctor and drifts off to sleep, never to wake again, or the person who feels the pain of slowly dehydrating to death? This is proof of my first statement.

BTW, if anyone wants to respond, it may be best to put this subject in a different thread.

Peace and love

 

Idiots who believe everyone should go about their way and do what they want do not understand the concept of government.

A government is set to rule a nation and its people.

If a government comes into play and says abortion is illegal, you will not argue against that government freely, albeit you could oppose illegally and in secrecy.

The point here, I am in politics, already, I work for politicians, I get paid for my work and I will become a lawyer, I will be one of the people that goes into the political systems and inflicts my beliefs into the system, into the structure.

And that is how ladies and gentlemen, laws are made, by bias, somebody has to go present a law, and promote is to be passed, and once its passed it's not because it's the " right " thing, it's because the person who pushed for that law to be passed thought it was the " right " thing.

Now, I am not a religious individual, I don't believe in morals and ethics, but I do believe in the benefit vs. negative system and it's been proven through factual statistics that nations who have unlimited and unrestricted abortion law systems, have failing birth rates.

Failing birth rates lead to one of two, longer career requirement before retirement is alotted, or an imbalance of working and retirees.

This creates economic problems people.

That's why I am against abortion but completely pro euthanasia.

And for the one who asked about the heart beat, I believe a heart beat signifies an independant life form, I mean worms have hearts, once something has a heart it becomes a being rather than a simple organism or plantation.

I just think women who don't plan on having kids have temporary birth control, I mean medically, not just pills.

To be honest I would be for mandatory storing of male and female reproductive products and have people that want to have children, those children be made, yes made.

Imagine baby factories.

That would once and for all eliminate the abortion arguement.

But we have about 2 decades to go for something like that.

 

^^^

You forget there's a separation of church and state. Our gov't shouldn't be making laws based on religious beliefs, and that's what most of anti-abortion propaganda is based on.

Peace and love

 

Uh, yeah, maybe most, but like I said I don't support abortion because it's a negative on the economy, and yeah I have my principles about killing babies, some things you can't create, some people are born with talents you can't create in a tube, like an artist.

Again, those that say those kids might have a shit future, all I say is the government can better orphanage homes, in the Soviet Union children were very well raised by the State...well those children that showed promise...not retards.

 

Gov't agencies can't even protect abused children from their parents; how can it raise a child? Or say, thousands of them?

http://www.nospank.net/gauvin.htm
http://www.jconline.com/apps/pbcs.d...me&theme=AIYANA
http://protected-to-death-by-cps.memory-of.com/

It's a woman's right to choice, not yours or mine.

What is your proof that abortion hurts the economy?

Peace and love

 

Fuck the government.