2nd Amendment Protest

The government has hundreds of ways to keep tabs on folks, especially the ones who don't buy into their "perfection". It is VERY EASY now for the police to find an excuse (any excuse) and get into someones home and take (steal) their weapons, and anything else they want. Every time another law or ban comes into place, there is another excuse. And if they can't find a "GOOD" excuse, they'll come to your house and say they HEARD something about you and tell you that you MAY AS WELL let them search your house, because if you don't they will come back with a search warrant and they WILL find something... THAT, by the way, is a direct quote from one of our scoundrel State Police officers who has probably broken this counties record for illegal searches. But, it matters not if the search is "illegal", because they can make your weapons disappear anyhow, never to be seen again.

Personally I'd rather be prepared for whatever comes along, and since those same cops TOOK our guns (bogus search warrant) I have WISHED for one SEVERAL times. NOT to kill with! Sometimes it's helpful to be able to make a HUGE noise... But I find in this state, that even FIRE CRACKERS are illegal...

No, it would not get you very far to attack the government or the cops with your guns, but if things got REALLY bad, you MAY wish to protect your FOOD, or your HOUSE or your FAMILY from thieves and people who would kill you for something to eat...

And I'm just being lazy, because I could have another gun in about a half hour...

 

There are two types of guns in society today man. The gunpowder an' bullet gun an' the mouth an' tounge gun. If anything were to happen that would cause uprise among the citizens of the US our best bet would be to use that second gun not the first. Unarmed resistance is always better than armed.

 

thanks bro glad to see someone is likeminded...
Dude I didn't say that any idea from 1787 is irrelevant you dumbass. You are seriously retarded. The fact is that you have to put what people say into the context of their time. Of course the right to bear arms was crucial back then as we were a new nation and our whole military was essentially militia. Are YOU saying that EVERY idea they had was great? slavery? oh and michael savage is a real shithead

 

Thanks for not resorting to personal attacks


First of all, most of those founding fathers quotes on this issue have NOTHING to do with the presence of militias of standing armies. They clearly address the right of the INDIVIDUAL to keep arms for defense against evil in it's MANY forms, WHEREVER it may arise.

If they only wanted the population to keep arms for the sake of banding into militias they would have stated that specifically (like they do in Switzerland). It wouldn't be hard.

But instead, it's expressed as an individual right: "the right of the people to keep and bear arms". I'm sure that 'the people' includes women and the elderly as well, no? People that would likely never be involved in a militia!

The current 2nd amendment case before the supreme court will determine whether it's a right that applies to militias only, or to individuals. And my money is on them finding it's an individual right. And an overwhelming majority of people (even those on the left that want gun control on a much larger scale) agree that it is an INDIVIDUAL right.


So basically your whole argument that arms were only "crucial back then as we were a new nation and our whole military was essentially militia" -- is SHIT.

I mean COME ON man! Do you really think that the people who wrote one of the most significant and influential documents ever, weren't smart enough to realize that the U.S. would eventually become a strong nation and no longer have to rely on rag-tag militias??? They KNEW there would be a huge standing army! That's why we have the 3rd amendment, DUH!!

 

they didn't realize that we would have AUTOMATIC WEAPONS and WMD.

Anyway, sorry for the personal attacks. I was mad about something else and felt like calling someone a dumbass and all that jazz. My bad.

And savage isn't really that bad half the time but he can be a real dick

 

#1 - American citizens have NO rights whatsoever to access/use WMD's. Completely irrelevant.

#2 - The % of crimes that involve the use of automatic weapons is something along the lines of less than 1%. I don't have a source off hand, but I guarantee you it pales in comparison to the 95+% of the time when a PISTOL is used. Anytime there is a shooting crime, it's almost ALWAYS a pistol. Automatic weapons aren't even legal to be owned by the general public so why are you acting like we have a problem with people using automatic weapons? We don't. Again, irrelevant.

 

Im not debating crimes and whether citizens can use WMDS gimme a break! Im helping you to see how it is a DIFFERENT TIME than the late 18th century. Im saying that WARFARE is a different game now, and there will be no serious resistance to tyrannical threat by...the NRA

 

You think thats going to HELP your cause?

All your going to do is scare people, and make them want the laws changed.

 

if this movement is to have any chance, don't let rudy or hillary get into office. meh, not like there's that much we can do about it anyway. things like the virginia tech massacre and shit along those lines really seems to happen at the perfect times for them...

 

I really don't see what all the shit is about man. I mean obviously guns themselves don't kill people, people kill people. My dad has 17 diferent rifles an' handguns of his own that he has permits to carry, not to mention the ol' double barrel shottie in his closet, but he is the preacher of the local Methodist church. Not everyone who owns a gun is goin' to use it in bad ways. Untill such time as we are able to lay down all of our differences an' decide to get along I see hand guns or any other type of gun as a neccesary part of society, to be used in productive or defense ways not aproductive or harmful ways.

 

Its refreshing to hear a voice of moderation in this never ending argument about gun control.

I agree with your previous statement about two kinds of weapons. Though I may debate the merits of and promote our 2nd Amendment right to the bitter end, the 1st Amendment and non violence actually have a greater potential to affect positive change than any box of bullets will.

The sad reality is that political power does tend to come from the barrel of the gun or any number of other assymetrical weapons being deployed by the super rich who control many of the nations of this world. The 2nd amendment is but another check on abuse and unwarranted influence in our republic. The real checks will be education, standing up for your rights, faith, and never giving in. Ballot box, jury box, bullet box.

So for those of you who like the idea of more federal power, and a nanny state to keep you safe from yourself then by all means keep those checks rolling in to the Brady Campaign Im sure they appreciate it.

Don't be afraid of guns, be afraid of the cowards that use them to coerce your fellow man...i.e..IRS special agents, and other criminals.

 

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‘Guns don’t kill people – people kill people’

So what kind of things do you believe could be done to try and help people from getting into the situation where they end up killing their fellow citizens?


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An entire overhaul of the mental health system. MUCH closer supervision of out-patients. Easier access to GOOD mental health care. Better informed and educated mental health care providers, who can then better inform and educate family members, helpers, significant others.

Overhaul of the police department. MUCH more specialized training in handling mental patients by law enforcement. Better systems within the police dept. put in place for dealing with mentally ill. (How about tranquilizer guns instead of tasers, or "men in white coats" rather than SWAT teams?) Perhaps special unit designed strictly for handling a mental health crisis.

FAR better education within the public and private school systems regarding mental illness, designed to eliminate the stigma attached to mental illness, to train common people how to spot "red flags", and what to do in emergencies.

There is an epidemic of mental illness in this country. There should be studies done on the WHY of this until they figure it out! It would probably help to totally overhaul our government too, with the goal of creating a kinder and gentler place in which to live.

 

I right to bear arms is in reference to state militias, not every ass with a couple hundred dollars. The constitution is not being enforced in many areas i find it disturbing someone would want to start by challenging the government to keep weapons on the streets, instead of calling for the civil liberties of people in this and other countries to stop being violated by corrupted governments

 

Actually, you saying that it's in reference to the state militias only is your personal take on it. And one that I might add, hardly anyone (liberal or conservative) agrees with you on.

The amendment does not grant a right; it recognizes a right already granted. The amendment does not say, “The people have the right to keep and bear arms.” It says, “the (already established) right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” And they have a point. As even the Supreme Court has acknowledged, the right to own firearms precedes the Bill of Rights.

Gun advocates also note that because the amendment gives the right to bear arms to the “people,” not the states, claiming that this right is dependent on anything the states do or don’t do — including forming militias — is ludicrous. After all, the Bill of Rights mentions no specific rights that the states possess, but several the people do.

Two additional points: In 1791, most state militias did not give guns to militiamen when militias were formed. Militiamen brought their guns with them — from home. Indeed, the amendment says they can “keep” their firearms, not merely “bear” them during military service.

At any rate ,there is a case currently before the supreme court that will (hopefully) close the book on the issue, and clearly show that it's an INDIVIDUAL right.

 

Of course they didn't issue guns you act as if there were huge mass production capable factories in 1791. And as for the the 2nd amendment you really think founding fathers envisioned a nation of gun toting gangsters ,come on you have more intelligence than to believe that don't you? My point was that the 2ndAmendment gives people the right to protect this country not their front porch.

 

Furthermore the constitution is and always will be up for debate. Just ask George Bush about his torture policy. Maybe ask Dick Chaney about his feelings on illegal wiretaps, as they relate to our constitution. My point is there is no closing any portion of the discussion on the constitution, the citizens always have the right to hold conventions and change the laws by adding or retracting amendments.

 

I agree. In my mind, "the founding fathers did this, and said that etc,.." is not a good enough reason for me to keep my mouth shut about issues that are important to me, and some people just refuse to consider the difference between the late 18th century, and modern times.

 

I never said that the constitution cannot be changed. I said that it's 2nd amendment addresses the right as a personal one, and not a state/militia one.

So if you advocate removing the amendment from the constitution entirely, well then that's fine...just don't try to deny the fact that the whole point of the 2nd amendment is to guarantee INDIVIDUALS the right to bear arms.

And there are more than a few quotes on this subject by the founding fathers themselves. Quotes that would leave no doubt in anyone's mind that "defending the country and not your front porch" was not what they believed in. They believed in the universal usefulness of firearms.

 

Oh and by the way...ever since portable mp3 players became popular a few years ago, many many more people (at least in my area) have been getting killed crossing the street or train tracks since they're distracted by their music and being irresponsible by not looking both ways.

Well, it seems to me that what we all need to do is ban iPods! We can't have all these people dying senselessly like this, and if they weren't listening to music, it never woulda happened! It's the iPods' fault! The founding fathers DID NOT see this coming!!