a thought on the "fish isn't meat" argument

wow. uhhh salmon4 me is it? yeah the reason we (vegetarians) are bothered by ppl that eat meat and still claim to be vegetarian is cuz it affects us directly and negatively. it has nothing to do with looking down on you (thats a little paranoid dontcha think) its that it reinforces misconceptions of true vegetarians and then we suffer. for example, food in restaurants. u ask is this item vegetarian; "oh yes sure it is" when in reality its been made with fish / chicken stock or what-have-you. some of us would have a problem (or could be seriously ill having never eaten meat) with being tricked into eating meat. albeit unintentionally.

and by the by, if u eat red meat-u are NOT a vegetarian. again, it has nothing to do with looking down on u, i personally could care less what u eat, but why do u feel the need to appropriate a label that isnt rightfully accorded to u? u eat meat. its all good. just dont claim to be something u are not i.e. vegetarian. and ppl that eat fish arent vegetarian either, please. fish=animal. animal not vegetarian.

and drumminmama i just wanted to add, that not all bengali brahmins eat fish. only caste brahmanas. real practicing bengali brahmanas abhor fish / eggs / and even onion and garlic. the bengali word is niramesh. pure veg. i used to live in india with bengali brahmanas. and no brahmana in the community (navadwipa) ate fish. its usually eaten by the merchants and general labourers.

 

Thats A good way to put it. Simple and sums in up.

 

Well,fish is not mineral or vegetable so I reckon that leaves animal.

 

It just seems odd to get all worked up about someone calling themselves a vegetarian. I get the feeling that if you didn't think you were a better person (holier than thou) because of your dietary choices, then you wouldn't be so upset.

I'm using 'you' in the plural sense...not calling anyone in particular out.

The 'reinforces misconceptions' bit doesn't really fly with me. Not that it doesn't ring true to a certain extent, just that more frequently I'd attribute it to the old 'holier than thou' veggie thing. IMHO, that type of attitude does a much bigger disservice to vegetarians than reinforced misconceptions.

 

well i beg to differ, the reinforced misconceptions hurts us. cant u see that? it has nothing to do with a holier than thou attitude, but trying to protect those of us that dont eat meat from getting duped into thinking something is veg when its not. i understand that this would be difficult for u to fathom, because it wouldnt bother u to have something with meat in it. thats fine. but it would bother me (it would probably kill me actually) and many of us, who are vegetarians. thats y we get "worked up" as u put it. not for the reasons u imagine. but to preserve the essence of the word vegetarian.

i hope that was clear.

and drumminmama, i dont understand ur post, i found it a little angry actually, telling me to lay off. i said salmon 4 me is it? only because i wasnt sure who had written the post i was responding to and didnt want to misname or misquote anyone.

as for the humor, i hope u didnt take my remarks badly about correcting you on the bengali brahmins who eat fish. its just when u grow up hearing that all the time (most ppl in india say stuff like that) its annoying especially when its not really true, but a stereotype that i dont care to promote.

 

Usually I don't care if people call themselves vegetarian and eat some fish... honestly, I'm not gonna lie, I know its bad, but when I first started I ate sushi every now and then but that was it. But I do think its odd...
But I think Devoted pointed out something when he said it affects people when they order something vegetarian and its not actually vegetarian because other people get confused on what vegetarian actually means and then you get something that is not vegetarian.

I mean I think if you're close enough then thats a good thing, definitely. I kinda have mixed feelings on the whole thing really

 

Personally, it would piss me off if I ordered something off the Vegetarian menu at a restaurant and took a bite and tasted fish. Mainly because I hate the taste fish but also because of mislabeling the dish. If it's got fish in it, list it as seafood. If there is no meat, then put under vegetarian dishes. I don't care that other people eat meat. It's their choice and what right do I have to judge them? I don't have that right, so I refrain from passing judgment on others. I don't eat meat for religious reasons, but why should I hold everyone to the same standards? Just like I don't look down on Christians, I don't look down on omnivores. (But when they're eating raw meat like hamburger from the package? I have a problem w/ that only because one can get food poisoning. But I digress...)

 

I eat the fishes, they got no fur
-Devendra Banhart

I don't really have an opinion, but I thought I'd throw that quote in. It's a good song at any rate. I'm trying to go raw and just stick to a green smoothie diet, but fish is delicious.

I do agree though... that if you're gonna tell people that you are veg then you shouldn't eat fish. Since it's become kinda like the cool thing to do, at least in some circles, it seems like a lot of people just want the attention or something.

Speaking of raw... and I'm sorry if this had been discussed because I didn't do a search, but is anyone down with Victoria Boutenko's book, Green For Life? It's quite good.

-Mike

 

I still think that the largest disservice is the hoier than thou attitude...'well that persons not a true veggie' or whatever. It makes people respect your life choice less. Carry on...

 

^salmon, you are making a very broad generalization about vegetarians. maybe some, but not all veggie people act in a 'holier-than-thou' attitude. perhaps categorizing all veggie people into this little box you have made for them is the larger disservice.

 

he is making an extremely broad generalization. u might even say a sweeping generalization. yes maybe some vegetarians possess a holier than thou attitude (i still have a hard time grasping why even this would bother you- from a psycholgical point of view its projection-but i digress) and maybe some carniovores or omnivores also possess a holier than thou attitude? no? dont u think that is possible? until u know all vegetarians, and the attitudes they may or may not possess, please keep ur generalizations (judgements) to a minimum.

and the reason u think the holier than thou attitude is a greater disservice is because u are not vegetarian! and i have said it before thats fine thats cool. whatev. i dont care what u eat. BUT, some of us are pure vegetarians and dont meat, or fish or anything that had a mamma, never have and never will. we are not better ppl, just different. we have convictions about y we dont eat meat, spiritual, ethical, moral or environnmental, etc. whatever the reason-just as u have convictions about why u eat meat.

SO when ppl who are NOT vegetarian, call themselves as such, something they are not, it perpetrates a misconception of what a vegetarian is. it is a misnomer. u dont know many times ppl tell me, okay ur veg-would u care for some chicken or fish then? (insert confused look here) uhhhh no thank u. its because the vast majority have been misinformed. many of us vegetarians try and dispell these misconceptions in order to educate and thus help one another. its not about judging u or others who eat meat.

cappiche?

 

Yeah exactly, you are doing vegetarians a disservice that way. And meat eaters definitely can have a holier than thou attitude, much much more so from my experiences. But you know, everyone is different, so don't put anyone into categories. I have no problem if you eat meat or whatever, but like devoted said I don't want someone giving me meat cuz they think thats vegetarian ya know? Its just simple... I don't think I'm better than you cuz of it or anything

 

u said it sistaH

 

Oh wow, what a mess! And all because I was tired of being offered fish as a "vegetarian" dish.

ALL I was hoping for, was for some sort of global acceptance of what is & isn't vegetarian! I'm allergic to most kinds of fish, so this goes beyond a simple dietary choice for me. When I ask someone if a dish is vegetarian, I need to know that it IS... and playing 20 questions to find out if their idea of vegetarianism includes fish, eggs, chicken, or any number of other "iffy" ingredients tends to get the person I'm asking AND myself rather frustrated!
love,
mom

 

and that is why we dont eat out much - when we went on Holiday in Europe we actually got a steamer to steam our own veggies

I think that that has happened to me before but im not sure. I dunno.



And fish has blood and can breathe etc.

 

I just wanted to mention that I completely agree with devoted. I think he made a great point and worded it nicely. Nobody is trying to appear better than anyone else by clearing up misconceptions. Think of the situation this way: if I went around claiming I ate meat and dairy while everyone else knew I really didn't, they'd quesiton my logic. Would doing so make them holier than thou? The answer is obviously no, so why is it wrong for veggies to do the same? We do grow tired of explaining we would not like chicken or fish with our "vegetarian" meals, you know. I am missing the point of why anyone who consumes animals would identify themselves with vegetarians in the first place. Isn't the whole point defeated? I am not a Buddhist, so I don't call myself one. I am not a Republican, so I don't call myself one. Is there not more logic in calling yourself what you are?

By the way, thanks to the multiple ideas about what a vegetarian is, I am asked a billion questions from my family and friends about what I do and do not eat. "You eat fish, right?" "What about chicken?" "Don't you eat everything except red meat?" This is nothing but an annoyance for me, but it can be harmful for others who get sick from eating animals.

 

thanks lunarflowermaidean im glad u saw the spirit with which my post was intended.
i also liked that u said, "im not a buddhist, so i dont call myself one" etc. well said.

with love,
devoted (manu)

 

I was actually only referring to those vegetarians with said attitude...not all vegetarians are like that.

 

Pretty much anyone can have that "greater than thou" attitude; it's not exclusive to food choice. I would dare say that a vegetarian who has that attitude probably has that attitude about everything else. As in "I'm Christian/Hindu/Jewish/Buddhist/Muslim/etc. so I'm better than you." It's not so much the choice of food that gives them the attitude, but rather their personality. So let's not judge an entire group of people based on the bad attitudes of a few people who are that way no matter what they eat!

Peace and love