Spirituality and psychedelics

This has been a subject of interest to me for some time now and I would like to get some peoples' opinions on it.

Are psychedelic drugs vehicles of divine knowledge and transcendence to dimensions beyond our own? Or are these perceptions merely subjective phenomena which can completely be described with chemistry and no mention of the divine or spiritual?

Or a combination of both?

In lower to moderately above average doses, psychedelic drugs are portals to the inner psyche, and allow us to perceive new functions in the mind which were buried in our subconscious before. In higher doses where ego-destruction occurs, one's mind or "soul" can re-emerge with a higher "source" consciousness. It is at this level, where the ego ceases to exist, that doses are understood as "spiritual" experiences. Even while these phenomena do have metaphysical ramifications and explanations, they also have explanations in objective reality which are based on chemistry and the body-mind interconnection. This does not make them any less spiritual or important, it is only saying that something spiritual and something chemical are occuring simultaneously. The existence of one truth is not exclusive of the other and does not rule out the other truth, they coexist.

Some people will say that it is purely chemical and there is no such thing as spirit, soul, or god and that every bit of ia trip is entirely out of your own mind and nothing else. I disagree with this.

What do you think?

Let's start an intelligent debate here.

 

yeaaa..lets

 

What do you think about it Pete? Any personal opinions or experiences to share?

 

I must say that this is very interesting subject. Because every single person got his own believes and opinions, so this can be observed from many different angles and expriences whitch might reflect same things said or expressed on a different way, or even two people saying same thing but thinking about completely different things.
But, in my own opinion, I would say that generaly there are stages of using drugs, and also stages of spiritual consciousness. I would say that when you start using drugs, on a very begining, you are not aware of your consciousnes, and you are trying to achive body high, you are more concentrated on what your body feels (you explained that as chemistry). And then suddenly, strange new beautifull excitments and pleasures are introduced to your mind. The more you go with it, you become more aware of those mind kind of pleasures and you start beeing more concentrated on those ones, and less of body highs. Eventually, you got to the stage, where body completely dies, it doesn't exist even like an idea, you start sailing in spiritual and mind oceans while you are on drugs. Than you start feeling like a master sailor in those oceans, and you start inducing those feelings even when you are not on drugs. In other words, you reached certain spiritual level that connects your body, spirit and mind, and at that level you are constanly learning, combining everything you know and then both chemistry and spirituality exists.
It can be also explained in simple words. When you are young, you are dreaming of having sex, and when you have it, you are so delighted of body feeling that sex brings. After some time, you fall in love, and realize that making love is so much better than sex. When you are making love, it is not just body pleasure, but it is also mind errection too. You started using body, spirit and mind!
It is so funny, but so perfect how this nature is working. First, you need to use body to find out mind, than you use mind to kill the body and find consciousnes, than you use consciousnes to control your mind, and than you use mind to control body, actually only than all of them trully become ONE. Once you find ONE, only than you can truly be ONE with everything and everybody. Once you become ONE, than you don't need drugs any more, but they are so nice, that there is no reason to stop....,or continue. At that stage everything is so simple and beautiful. And again, another circle, you used so complicated things to find out that simple is so beautiful, and than you realize that complicated situations can be solved only by using simple solutions.
Isn't that so beautiful?!

So, everybody got his own paths of discovery and enlightment, this what I said is usually general way, and who ever is stuck on some stage of general steps, he is abusing drugs and claiming that it is all just the product of your imagination. And who can blame them, they didn't expirience something you are talking about, and they can not just trust your words and except it. That's why I said that this subject can be very interesting, because everybody will give their perpective from their own path and step.

Just look at my signature picture, ONE picture on a simple way explaining such a complex nature: (Mind+body=one)+(one+one+one.....=one nature) = ONE

Or, it can be said like this ((truth+truth...+truth)+(truth+truth...+truth))= ONE TRUTH


Plenty of love for all of you!

 

Well heres the problem, when you go to discuss spirituality, especially
states brought on by psychedelics, the only description one can give
will follow preconceived path's and realizations that one has stumbled
upon or opened up, and this tends to bring about seperation in the
minds of those who are discussing. The limited ability to use words to
express symbols and paint pictures in another persons mind can very
easily translate to dogma or superiority, or give the impression that
there is only one 'path', as Shapeshifter is saying that it all boils down
to the state of Oneness. Which, is most definitley true, but a person
who has not broken such barriers can have a hard time wrapping their
mind around such a concept.
This past weekend Stay Loose and I dosed on around 3 hits of LSDeach,
and what we got to talking about at one point was the permeating light
energy and the fields of thought-matter that can be seen pouring out
of solid objects both into the energy field surrounding and into other
solid or fluid objects. To be able to feel the infinite complextity invovled
with the most simple nature is mind bending. To feel that every sub-
atomic energy is potentialy an ever expanding universe in itself can
leave one with a wide open mouth and a fried brain for a moment lol.
Yea no matter how detailed it all is, it's still all, essentially, One thing,
and to me that One thing is God, or at least an active/creative aspect
of God's love. And I personally choose to love God before anything else,
before my son, my wife, myself, my mom, my friends, my acid. We are
all One thing, a self-conscious energy thought projection from the mind
of God, as if we are not even dreaming this false physical reality, but
we are 'being dreamed' if you will. My spirituality, in cases of going on
a trip, as well as being sober, is involved with meditation and prayer,
devotion and sending love vibrational thought frequency to this soul
source of projection, where we come from, who we essentially are
at the core, God, the Cosmic Dreamer. We are riding on waves in the
cycle of Brhama and can awaken as God the Dreamer by means of
stepping out of this existance into the source of prana, chi, life-energy,
etc. Like turing off a video game, we step out of the controlled into
the controler, but how many times can we keep stepping out? Infinitley
Im sure, until we awaken into the One, then infinity becomes meaningless.
To experience infinity of existance can truly render one next to insane
if it is truly felt deeplys.
So many paths, so many ideas, all lead to the same beginning, sustaining,
and end. -

 

^^^Exactly, they are the vehicles but only one powerful model in a whole car park. Than you completly understand why I had a discussion with Yogi Bhairava. It all comes down to ONE.

 

Yea, Bhairavaji is a wonderful person and I have no
doubt that he only has the best intentions for all of
us, and I also agree with everything he has to say
about trancendental reality, source of prana and
self-conscoisness, and becoming one with God through
meditation. He even sent me his book to read which
I highly recommend.
However, I've come to realize that becoming One with
God take nothing more than love and honest devotion,
and for some people a total yogic sadhana is not going
to work for them in their current lifetime. I dont know
what is right for me, but at the moment I have so many
things happening in my life that I cant do the sadhana
exactly as he has laid out. I do meditate every night and
on the weekend I include my mornings after I give my
son a bottle of milk and put on his cartoons, and for me,
for right now, this is enough. All you need is love friends,
its true

 

Great responses from everybody. I'm very pleased with the intellectual quality of this community. I also agree with the fact that meditation and prayer are also very important for spiritual development. Drugs are just a catalyst, a jumping off point for many beginners and experienced people seeking to reach new levels. Prayer and meditation also help us integrate, internalize, and understand findings from psychedelic or spiritual experiences so that we do not "catch a fish so big we can't reel it in," or be so unable to comprehend a revelation that it is completely lost on us and impossible to translate into words or even remember.

 

Such a beautiful description of the purpose of prayer for
those of us who have found a certain level of divinity by
way of psychedelics Thank you for sharing!

 

this guy i used to work with is a strange character. he has done a lot of acid in his day but he is not at all spiritual. i thought that doing enough LSD would make anyone stop and wonder. but not him - it is almost like it has somehow made him even more against spirituality. i guess LSD is what you make of it to a certain degree.

for the most part i think that LSD wakes people up in a way that is very spiritual. in the rare case when it does not have that effect the person will usually stop using it. if the reason someone is doing LSD is just to get high and have fun usually they find that cocaine is a better choice. of course there are exceptions.

LSD and spirituality is a great thing. LSD and religion can be dangerous. it is best when the individual is not clinging to their old ways. most religions are not open minded - although some are.

 

I agree 3xi, the word religion is typically hand in hand
with close minded dogma. But definitley not all of them
are. I know we've had our differences 3xi, but I highly
recommend reading a GOOD translation of the Bhagavad
Gita sometime, sober or tripping, and you will see how
open minded and deeply connected with the LSD state
of mind the vaishnava branch of Hinduism really is.
And I too know plenty of people that have taken LSD
and mushrooms countless times and get nothing out of
it other than a deeper appreaciation for nature and/or
technology, the finer inner workings of materials, but
the spirituality doesnt seem to even come accross their
minds. -

 

That's an interesting story, though I'm sure that's not the only case of that happening. Lots of people are just so caught up in body highs that they completely ignore the mental or spiritual aspects of it. These kinds of people, as you say, would usually turn to cocaine to get their kicks.

Your statement about the incompatibility of LSD and mainstream organized religion is quite insightful. Open mindedness is the most important part of any spiritual experience.

 

Very true about Hinduism! I have been interested in the synchronicities between that religion and the psychedelic state. I'm not into organized religion at all, but of them all, Hinduism is probably my favorite.

I also know people like that who only take drugs for the body high, completely ignoring the much more significant spiritual effects because they are close minded. As 3xi said, this type of person usually discontinues using drugs when they get bored of them, or turns to party drugs like cocain or X.

 

Simply said users and abusers of drugs.

 

Couldn't be any more simple or true.

 

What I belive is much above all known religion, it containes all the religions, and all the religions are made to somehow point to that, if you know what I mean!

 

That would probably describe the views of most people on these forums, or in the psychedelic community in general. It is usually referred to as "spirituality," to destinguish it from organized religoin and the dogma that comes with it.