Abortion should be used more often it seems. I think it's essential, as day after day more unsustainable human life springs up slowly destroying our beautiful world. I have no problem with considering it murder, because i don't have a ridiculous and deluded belief in the santity and greatness of all human life. What would really solve the problem is if people had to apply to have babies, and go through tests to see if they can be decent parents. Until that time, keep aborting unplanned babies.
Interesting point. Is parenthood a natural right, or should it be seen in the context of social responsibility? I would argue the latter....
I would too. We may not have started off that way, but we've certainly become a race that needs far more self-control. Nature is perverse sometimes, init? Look at the Eskimos, Aboriginals, Red Indians.. all human races who respect the Earth and help preserve all it's natural resources, and yet these are the parts of humanity who are becoming extinct. Damn shame, these "throwbacks" are the future, philosophically speaking.
I think it has to be left a natural right, who the hell can you put in charge of saying who can and who can't. Viability can be answered with, maybe, can the child survive on the bottle. It's not a beautiful world, its a lump of rock with organisms crawling over it, if mankind weren't here it would not be perceived as beautiful, can't remember the last animal to write or paint about it. Nature is correct in what she does, who can argue, and if extinction comes then maybe there is a reason.
self-contradictory, surely? If mankind weren't here there'd be nobody to percieve anything, let alone the Earth being a lump of rock with organisms crawling all over it. How many animals do you have conversations with exactly? Maybe if you spoke to more they might start talking to you..?? You never know..
Abortion means that less children will be growing up in bad conditions. Legal abortion stops back alley abortions, that endanger womens lives. Abortion destroys the potential for human life, yes, but not human life itself. If yer against destroying the potential human life, then try and persuade women to get pregnent to stop periods, until they are out of eggs.
On the news today suggested methods of practice will require that births of 22 weeks and under are not resuscitated, sublimented with a doctors confirmation. The reason given is that the successful survival without serious physical or mental disablement is in the region of 1%.
Not true in all cases - Here in Wisconsin, a girl under the age of 18 has to have parental consent (or the consent of a judge and two direct family members - ie a brother, sister, grandparent over the age of 25. This is used if the gir feels parental consent would be too hard to get because of their beliefs, and is about 10 times harder to get than parental consent) has to go through consueling at least 24 hours before having an abortion, and has to hand over the money (on average $400) before she has it. It's more than just parental notification, and it's like this in more states than just Wisconsin. And as far as I know, 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions are only allowed for anyone if the baby/mother are in danger, or in cases of rape and incest. BUT I could be wrong on that, so don't quote me on it, I'll have to look it up, and will come back when I know for sure either way. I watched a friend of mine go through an abortion two years ago. She was 17, a month shy of turning 18, but she couldn't wait that long. The whole process of getting parental consent, consueling, and gathering the money (getting money from her boyfriend and borrowing from friends) took about a week and a half. Then she had to find a good clinic to have it done, and then recover from it. It wasn't as cut and dry as her going in to have it done after her parents being told by the clinic, it doesn't work like that....
Or practice a more successfull method of contraception. Then we can enjoy shagging for what it is without the need for us to decide that its only a means to an end and a job that needs to be done to continue human life. We may feel that we can condition human nature through laws and enforce our personal and subjective belief systems onto others but just as this point has made to make abortion illegal wont make it go away, it would just create problems of a much wider scale, as it did when abortion was illegal. I cannot truly argue one way or other, for me it has to be an individual's responsibility that they have to live with for the rest of their lives. To have a legal process for abortion then allows for a system of support and counselling that may give all the potential avenues and coming consequences of such actions some understanding and knowledge that will allow an informed judgement. I don't argue for the right to cut out life. I have a belief that all life is sacred and cyclical, in that the soul continues to exist when the flesh is born, becomes dead and decays then is re-born. I know, far out man, and there are flaws with that point as in an ever-growing global population. But if we look at a basic empirical argument that energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transformed from one form to another; our flesh will then becomes potential energy but what about our consciousness, our ability to think, produce and create abstract thought, the notion of the sixth sense, the soul where does that go? 'I knew that was going to happen, I could feel it!!!'? We've all said it. Deja vu, what is it? But most of us have experience of it. Is not the action of aborting life just another human action that makes us what we are, as in the need to have scientific endeavour for the better of our lives, yeah right; IVF which allows people to demand that they have a right to have children, as I've heard some people argue? One problem is that once we' ve had compassion to save this soul from destruction most of us turn our backs and either say get on with it or just plain fuck off jack, I'm all right!!!
I think that's a terrible reason to abort a baby. My sister used to work with children with medical and mental issues, and I met many of them. They are great people and have much to offer, even if it's in a different way then you or me. Of course I think it should be legal. I don't think it should be used as just an easy way out, if you mess up and become pregnant, but there are many cases were it is justifiable. It's one of those things, that I don't believe I personally could ever do, but I think women have every right to get an abortion, in a clean, safe, professional hospital rather than in some hole in the wall. Because weather it's legal or not, women will abort fetus's and I'd rather see that happening in hospitals and not them trying to do it themselves with a coat hanger.
Still debating this one in my head I used to say it was acceptable in certain circumstances but the age the foetus can be aborted should be lowered dramatically. Isnt it 24 weeks or something? Thats just obsecne, its a tiny little person at that age But now im thinking who can actually know when it becomes a person? But then theres also overpopulation to consider. Not that that would justify abortion of course, but if the foetus was just a load of cells and not a soul then maybe... Its complex, ive thought it through extensively and still havent reached a conclusion
Abortion is simply murder. Because you are killing a life form. Lethal injection on a featus, seems immoral
Well, you eat animal products...other animals are life forms Plants are too, arguably, but theyre not sentient in the way a calf or a boy would be Least a foetus isnt tortured first Just throwing things out theres *whistles*
Certainly foetuses are far less capable of sensation and suffering than fully grown cows, sheep, even chickens...
Oh no...sorry i didnt mean that to look like a narky obnoxious general comment...No, i know because of a thread we were talking on earlier today about veganism. I think it was about vitamins originally or somethingHe said he didnt understand but was interested, which let me know he eats animal products Im not so silly as to assume
It did infact sound like you knew him, not obnoxious at all, but you can see why it would be confusing. S
Yeah i can see Im glad i didnt sound like that! (because you do get the obnoxious vegans...which i find very contradictory. As for me its about a respect for the living, which includes human beings. I guess theyre just flared up by passion, and i wont deny i have been in the past, but youve gota respect someones informed decision and be decent to folk, or youre losing the point)
I can see why you brought the point up with J0hn, however generally do you think its helpful comparing the two, I think it confuses the issue as they are two different ethical debates S
