What really pisses me off!

You know what really pisses me off? Parents who send their gay or bi kids to these pray-the-gay-away camps where they get taught to hate who they are.

 

I forgot those places existed,but they do.That just shows you how deep hate runs with some people.I'd bet the suicide rate among kids who actually go to those places is very high,just a thought.Though getting taught they're immoral,sinful young adults who need to fight the evil within is just ludicrious and ironic,because as far as I can see it's the people who hate,the ignorants and the like who really need to examine themselves and change there hateful ways.If anything it's those hateful people who are immoral.There still are alot of those people out there,and it's a shame why so many would choose hate over love.I'm sorry if I offend anyone,just my thoughts on the subject.
*Joey*

 

It's all in good intention.

They just thing homosexuality is wrong and need to fix it or they're being wrong.

I don't think they teach the people that they're immoral sinners. I think they teach methods on how to "fix" themselves.

All I'm saying is, it's not a hate camp. They're all just misguided. They should get rid of those, though. It's the parents' job, if anyone's to change their child.

 

JackBond, it's good that you don't condemn those people and try to understand them instead, but people need to understand that morality is not a simple matter of following rules laid down by a church or a book to make everything easy like following a Betty Crocker recipe! Too many people think that the Bible and preachers are here to replace our minds and hearts! Good intentions can't bring back kids who kill themselves because they were made to feel that they were defective! You are right that they are misguided. They are misguided because they follow dogma instead of their own compassion and rational thinking.
Personally, though I don't think of those people as evil, I have little sympathy for them because they will always be convinced, no matter how destructive their actions, that they are right and that all they have to do is let their religion make all their decisions for them so that they can just go through life being holy and pure while those for whom things are not so simple must suffer their self-righteous judgment. I'm not trying to criticize you for trying to be understanding, in fact I respect you for it, it's what makes you different from them. But don't make excuses for them: they don't need them. They rest assured that God and most of this messed up society is on their side because they are taking the easy way of blind faith instead of doing the much harder work of listening to their own conscience and using their minds to try to understand, like you do. They think they are following Christ, but Christ tried to teach love and tolerance. They are not following Christ, they are following Christianity which teaches stupidity by replacing humanity with dogma. I'm not saying I have all the answers or even that I am that much better than they are, but I know that if I use something outside of myself to replace my mind and heart, the halo on my head IS SATAN'S COCK-RING!
peace

 

i LOVE those parents!

 

Love is good. I'm not saying anyone should hate them (the way I do), but I do think we should hate what they are doing to their kids.

 

shya. i wuz keeding.

 

Oh, OK. I misunderstood the sarcasm. Yeah this is an issue where my hippie peace and love gives way to wanting to start a little reprogramming camp of my own for homophobes called Camp "Pray This Away!"

 

hahaha i love it

 

If we hate them then really were not much better and only adding to the problem.(I'm not saying like them)but somehow not to take it quite so personally,be grateful we're not in that situation.Hoping those people (parents in this case)can see there own ways as being something that needs change and to choose understanding,tolerance and love over shoving there belief system down everyone elses throat.This is not easy to do!and yea I still struggle with hateing those bigoted people and the harm they cause!Why,does it have to be that way with some people,I'll never understand...anyway,I wish I was so kind I could love those people lol

JOeY*

 

In all seriousness, you and I are not separate from those people. "I am he as you are he as you are me as we are all together." (one of my favorite Beetles songs) For me, it's only from that standpoint that forgiveness of people like that is possible. I guess when it comes right down to it, I don't really hate those people, I'm just pissed off at them. If I was presented with a choice between taking out my anger at those people at camp "Pray This Away" and having an opportunity to help heal and restore the damage done to those poor children they hurt, I wouldn't have to think about it for a nanosecond to choose helping the kids.
But I do believe being pissed off at stuff like that and showing it is a good thing because if no one gets pissed off, then the persecutors who are so convinced they are right will never question themselves for a second. But when Rosa Parks (to cite and example) said "Fuck you, I'm not getting up!" ( or whatever it was she said) it shook things up. People had to think twice instead of just resting assured that the "will of God" or whatever had prevailed.
My mom became my hero once when I was a kid. A neighbor lady told me not to play with her kid any more and called me "welfare trash". I told my mom about it and she took my hand, went over there and pounded on the door and that lady got a tongue-lashing like I'd never seen before! I'll never forget the look on that lady's face!
We can be grateful we aren't in the position of those kids, but those kids are a part of us like everything in the universe is part of us. You said in your first reply " it's the people who hate, the ignorants and the like who really need to examine themselves" but they are too brainwashed by the institutions they follow to do that unless they are challenged by people who get pissed off.
Those people go to church (the anti-Christ? --just a thought) every week and have their minds poisoned by validations of their judgmental beliefs, and they are convinced that deep down all the "sinners" know they are wrong and sinful. But if even just one of those "sinners" find their voice and speak from their heart and say what they REALLY DO know deep down with all the righteous rage that is in them, I just feel like it has to shake that belief just a little bit.
On a related note, the 23rd is our day--bisexual day and it falls on a Sunday. I plan on celebrating it by going to a church service (the most homophobic, fundamentalist church I can find) wearing a T shirt that says "Kiss me I'm a bisexual!".....unless I succeed in finding a picture of a kid who was sent to one of those camps and ended up committing suicide, in which case I will go carrying a sign with a picture of the kid on it. That would be even better, but, though I'm almost certain there is one out there, I'm not sure if I will be able to find a copy of it. That would be ideal though. Either way, though, it should be fun.he he.

 

Yea,G.C. I did'nt mean to suggest not being angry,sorry if I did.I just don't think we should burn with rage which does'nt go anywhere and affects us more than them.I'd agree for change things need to be shaken up outta complacency and anger is what usually works.Those people are under the influence of the institutions brainwashing and are not just gonna change.People have always had to fight for their rights and it takes those Rosa Parks to shake the foundations and create change.I guess I could've said how tired I always get from having to fight for things where I don't see a need for a fight at all but that's the way things are.I'd diffenetely choose to help those kids get their lives back instead of taking my anger on their brainwashed parents(which might not do much good anyways).I really wish people were'nt as scared and iniminated by the systems that are supposed to be protecting them and looking out for them.Should we really be walking around to paranoid to say "Hey this sucks!,let's find a better way".I thought that's what promotes positive change,Anyway that's off topic a little but you know what I mean?I like your idea of celebration for Bi pride day lol,what would happen if 10,000 bisexuals did that or 100,000?.I don't know what I'll do maybe just burn some candles,light some incense have some good food and talk with some friends,unless something better comes up.I dig the Walrus lyrics.I'm a big fan!btw You've got a cool mom! All the Best,
Joey*

 

i've never heard of those camps! what the hell?!

but then..maybe we dont have them over here? anyway, thats rather rubbishy of them (by which i mean the parents, obviously lol)

 

amen to that (!)

closed minded people like that should go to pray-the-hate-away camps

 

I have to confess I chickened out on the going to church thing. The more I thought about it the less a church seemed like the best place to protest. Instead I want to look for ways I can directly protest the camps. "Exodus International" I believe is the name of one of them. I'm still in the brainstorming stage, so any ideas anyone has about how to do that would be appreciated. Happy bisexual day everyone!

 

Give thier computers a virus lmao!, Happy Bi-pride day!!!!YAY!!!
J

 

That would be perfect! Too bad I don't know how. Oh, well. Party time!

 

It's ok I don't know how either but It's the thought that counts lol And as far as I'm concerned those b*stards can go to h*ll !! Those phony holy rollers lol what a bunch of b.s, Ha ! Anyway gonna move off the anger................. into Celebration mode Yea,your right!! It's Party Time !arty:

Happy Bi-Pride day everybody !! :rainbow:
YAY!!! Our day!!!

 

I don't think these camps are a good idea in general. But Im just curious, does anyone here think that SOME people (in rare cases!) who have ego-dystonic same sex attractions (I hope Im not getting controversial, but well, I know I am) could have them because of childhood abuse or an ego conflict, but posess the capacity to change this part of themselves should have a place to go?? Or do you think it is simply impossible, does more harm than good??

Im glad you're not going to protest at a church, because well, that would just make you look really stupid. Many people who are christian and go to church (like myself) do not fall into the conservative dogmatic fundamentalist bunch, in fact, we resent the bad name that these people have given christians. Some christians really do wish to follow the path of Jesus, so just keep that in mind.
PS I know that you really referring mainly to the people who send their kids to these camps, and that I can understand but just make sure you don't generalize and turn your disdain against all christians.

 

omg....they still have those things?? I thought those we eradicated like 50 years ago. They should be made illegal, there's like no point to them. In a way, I think it would be fun to go to one of those camps or whatever, and pretend to go along with it, and then at the end, when they ask you if you've converted, be like "well....nope! still wanna suck and fuck my way to hell....ta ta!"
PLUS, it could be a great place to meet other guys, who knows....