Since I noticed a bunch of threads with people wanting to argue about past wars..either so they can flat-out America bash or just to argue about war period....this thread is just continuity of that subject. So what's your view on the Trojan war? were America's capitalistic empirical goals the reason? Was Helen worth dying over? How did Brad Pitt look in his armour? I for one supported the Trojan war. It made for good lit.(The Illiad) exciting movies, and a nifty name for condoms. Two thumbs up..good family fun.
Otter, I agree with you, there is a direct continuity within the entire history of our Primate Sexual Hierarchy. From the Homeric Age down the ages into our own time, Hierarchical Civilization is a process of alienation and objectification. The objectification of Women as mere status objects within the Hierarchy, like the objectification of Nature as a mere object to be raped and exploited, or the objectification of other Races as lesser feeling creatures to be manipulated and dominated. But what does suprise me is the idea of Brad Pit as Achilles! That brooding bigger than life Achilles that explodes in an existential angst right out of the pages of Homer! Brando, in his prime, maybe; Burton, in his prime, maybe; Olivier, in his prime, maybe; but Brad Pit?!? I guess when you think about it, who else is there today? At least Brad has a little flicker of intensity in his eyes. I haven't seen the movie; how did Brad do? Who else today do you think has the fire to pull it off?
Just as there are many layers to historical Troy, roughly nine archaeological strata ranging from around 3000 BCE to 500ACE, so there are many layers to the Trojan Wars. It can be seen as literature, adventure story, ancient Greek morality play, or an historically based legend. As this is a political forum Otter I presume we are looking at this in a political sense? ** Since I noticed a bunch of threads with people wanting to argue about past wars..either so they can flat-out America bash or just to argue about war period....this thread is just continuity of that subject. Otter are you trying to say is that the Trojan Wars have as much relevance to modern American politics as the Vietnam War? I can’t go along with that to me the Vietnam War has a lot of resonance in US society, not least because a lot of people that were touched by it in some way are still alive today. Many of the reasons being used to justify or vilify US foreign policy are being expressed in the same terms they were 40 or 50 years ago. The consequences of the Vietnam War are still being played out. The Trojan War does not have that resonance it is interesting in its way but of far less relevance too modern US society (except as condoms maybe?). As to the film it is all about ‘Gladiator’ making money which meant Hollywood saw money again in ancient history based epics, which also means that we are going to get Oliver Stones version of Alexander the Great (I bet Phillip II’s assassin turns out to come from the grassy knoll)
actually Balbus, I was just being a smartass.lol. Since people love arguing about wars...I just pulled a random war out of the hat. It was either this or the Pictish wars. People can definitely debate the politics of this war. I would be interested in seeing if people can form the same opinions and use the same arguments for any war that they use for 20th-21rst century wars. As for it relevance...well...our existance was formed of the backs of those who lived and died thousands of years ago.Some could argue that we wouldnt exist as a nation if the Trojan war(or any of the giant past wars) did not occur. It is just for fun and debate.
Otter, Thank you for eliciting yet another asinine, sanctimonious, unintentionally humorous diatribe from m6m!
Yeah Huck! Am I cutting a little too close to the bone for ya buddy?!? I know it's uncomfortable to be stripped naked and exposed for all our hairy smelly Primate motivations. But that's the humor of it all. Or maybe the tragi-comedy of it all. What could be more fun than exposing our stiff, repressed, morally superior Gothic Puritan American Culture for all its delusional psychosis. I'm just getting warmed up bro!! Wait till I start cutting lose exposing the latent Homo-eroticism woven through-out our political, business, and religious motivations. But I'm trying to save that for a rainy day.
man, i never thought of the ironic name for a condom that is trojan...i mean you put it on so the girls open the gate...so once its in shouldnt it burst open with a nasty surprise that invades and takes over the womans body....god damn..im never buying trojan again...
NEWS FLASH! The Trojan War is a Mythical war, it never happened. But like all myths, it has a loose root in reality, in a fairly small war over an important trading route. The Greek - Persian war... now THAT was a war!
Yeah Huck, Finally, someone picked up on that! I was beginning to worry that parody was dead! Or that whenever I parrot the language of sanctimony, the irony was being lost. But you've given me re-newed faith that, far from being dead or lost, reverse symbology can achieve acute irritation.
In the spirit of a fun debate (thank-you Otter) I would ask a some questions Why has no one found that cause of the war that ‘weapon’ that caused so much mass destruction the Golden Apple? Who supplied all those spears and swords, just what was northern Europe up to at this time? Doesn’t the fact that Menelaus obviously treated Paris as a guest mean that the Greeks at one time supported the Trojans?
I'm of the opinion that Homer was a spin doctor working for the Greeks, and his Illiad is a highly fictionalized account of the war! I doubt there ever was a Helen, and I seriously doubt the gods played any part in it! It all boils down to Greek imperialism! Troy was an important trading center and the Greeks wanted control of it! So they made up lies to justify their invasion, and when the war took much longer than expected they couldn't honorably withdraw, so the war went on and on, ruining the Greek economy before it was finished, so they made up these stories so the average Greek citizen would be behind them even though he was out of work! Thank God people aren't that gullible anymore!
