Post-Industrial Revolution Society

So lots of banking panics are conspiracies? This makes no sense, because if they orchestrated banking panics to usher in the Federal Reserve, why would they orchestrate more panics afterwards? Either that or you are saying only the one you are talking about was a conspiracy, not the others I mentioned, which makes it an incredible coincidence. What evidence did you find that showed this particular panic was a conspiracy?

My point was that when people say something as vague as "the people knew" they are probably making it up. Since you still haven't backed it up with anything other than hearsay, I still think it is made up.

You don't change the banking system without consulting banks any more than you regulate telecoms without inviting comment from telephone companies or regulate air travel without consulting airlines. Banking is not a crime, JP Morgan and the Rockefellers are not criminals, and regulation is not a war on the industry in question. Keep in mind, private bankers already controlled the banking system, they already had all the power they could have.

Er... no. I don't even know what you're on about.

The gold standard and central banking are two seperate issues, the creation of a central bank did not eliminate the gold standard. The gold standard survived long after the creation of a central bank.

I have no idea what you are talking about and I doubt you do either. What algorithms?

Economic "complications"? This is utterly false. You are saying that the world economy ran smoothly and trouble free until the gold standard was eliminated and then everything went wrong. This is completely absurd and historically ignorant.

The gold standard itself creates all kinds of problems. There isn't even enough gold worldwide to back up the US dollar alone, and linking a currency to gold can have a significant impact on the price of gold itself. Instead of a currency value based on trade and interest rates, we'd have a currency tied to a volatile commodity whose linkage to the economy is essentially random. It makes no more sense than linking to the price of lead or Manhattan real estate or bottles of Nuit St George 1991.

But we didn't. The President appoints the BoG that controls the FOMC. Neither you nor Rat has ever refuted this.

No, the regional banks are owned by banks operating in their jurisdiction. These bank are in turn owned by shareholders. This is a problem with using conspiracy theories from 100 years ago - you still believe that at the top of the chart there are these big Rockefeller holding companies. But there aren't. Look at the shareholders of Citibank, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, NationsBank, etc... they are enormously fragmented shareholding structures. There is no "guy" at the top.

The Fed has no stranglehold of debt based slavery. You keep repeating this and when people ask you to explain you pretend you never heard the question. Ever heard of Treasury bonds? There are $5.6 trillion of them. The are issued by - can you guess? - the Treasury, not "the Fed". They are issued because the US Federal Government runs a budget deficit.

I'm not really optimistic that you will ever try to explain this $5.6 trillion, or explain how "the Fed" somehow has played this debt trick on us. You have a habit of just ignoring things you can't explain or back up.

Not much to respond to there, although you might note that after the greatest robbery in American history, America ended up among the most prosperous nations in the world. Pretty odd.

Now here's the real deal. The Fed is simple. It is made up of three parts. This is an undeniable fact, and neither you nor Rat have ever even tried to refute this. It would be like pretending that Congress doesn't actually exist, there is only a Senate, and all my links to congress are part of a big lie.

The three parts of the Federal Reserve system are as follows:

1. The BoG, appointed by the President
2. The FOMC, controlled by the BoG, which sets monetary policy in a widely publicised and closely followed manner. When the FOMC speaks, global financial markets stop and listen.
2. The Regional Federal Reserve banks, whose shares member banks are obliged to own. The RFRBs do not set monetary policy and do not issuing Treasury Bonds. Their earnings are explicity limited by law to a 6% dividend.

Now those things are facts. You may as well argue that the White House is in Hawaii as to dispute those facts. In all likelihood, you will claim they are all lies, without saying exactly how or bothering to prove it. But lets ignore that for a moment.

Your conspiracy theory can only work in two ways:

1. Claim that this is not the true structure of the Federal Reserve system, and then proceed to explain how private banks actually control the part of the FRS that sets monetary policy, i.e. the FOMC. You won't do this, because you can't. You might try to go all vague and start referring to "the Fed" rather than its constituent parts, hoping to confuse the privately owned RFRBs with the part of the FRS that actually sets monetary policy and performs core central banking functions. But that's the best you can do. More likely you will do :

2. Claim that it makes no difference how the FRS is structured since the conspirators control everything so even if the President appoints the BoG it the conspirators control the president so they get what they want. But the fatal flaw with this argument is that it refutes your own theory since it means it makes absolutely no difference whether "the Fed" is privately owned or not and what happened on Jekyll island is totally meaningless and irrelevant.

So you're in the same bind you've always been in, which is why you never actually answer my questions and you never actually explain your theories. They have no factual backing and they are full of logical contradictions. It would be impossible to defend them.

 

My "theories" are actually indisputable facts, and the only contradictions are dreamt up by YOU. You are right in one respect, it's impossible to defend my position with you, i'll concede that. I realize that this is most likely your job and you have an inordinate amount of time to spend dreaming up ways to confuse anyone reading this thread, you present more and more irrelevant facts and double speak for everything I post. You go off on obscure tangents that have absolutely no merit, I simply do not have the time or energy to go through and debunk every single nook and cranny, therefore you will always win, which is why I simply despise when you get involved in my threads, you always make it your personal mission to derail them, confuse the hell out of everyone reading them, and muddy the waters to the point nobody even cares what the original topic was. Therefore you've accomplished your goal yet again, i'm not going to participate in your game, it's a waste of time.

 

by the way, i've read Tavistock Psychological Warfare manuals as well, I know exactly what your doing and you can get fucked for even trying it.

 

Pepik is a known troll no sweat Rob the only ones he reaches attend his church or vote with his daddy.

 

Somehow my link disappeared referring to biometric id.

http://www.spp.gov/report_to_leaders/index.asp?dName=report_to_leaders#kts

Hopefully Skip will keep it from disappearing again.

 

I apologize if you see this more then once.

With the advancement of technology we went from biological and chemical warfare to a insane nuclear arms race.

With enough weapons to blow up the world many times over perhaps someone realized that this is something which needs only to occur once for the world to become no more.

We are still caught in the middle of an arms race however the battle wears a disguise, appearing to be less lethal to the public’s eyes compared to the idea of being caught in the middle of a nuclear holocaust.

Welcome to the age of information. Wouldn’t people in positions of unchecked power find ways to profit from abusing their power? Since it is certain that some people will abuse their power if they think they can get away with it, somewhere along the line information and people are going to get exploited. When politics are involved corruption surely will follow.

You cannot stop the occurrence of something if you don’t know about it. How easy it is to manipulate people into handing over their civil liberties. Remember, you are not giving up liberties because anything that is being done against you is all being done in the name of national security. “Move along people, move along, there is nothing to see here.”

The foundation upon which the current political and economical system is built upon is beginning to wobble. Sooner or later it’s bound to collapse because a weak foundation can only stand for so long.

History repeats itself because people don’t learn the first time around. If we repeat the mistakes of previous eras we are bound to end up following their footprints. If things were bad before, they are probably worse now because over the years the technology has advanced and mistakes made in today’s world may carry greater long terms consequences then they once have.

Knowledge is power. If you are a thinking person you are a threat to the corrupted who want you to accept everything presented word for word without questioning the validity of the content. If you don’t think for yourself someone else is going to think for you.

Does this idea make any sense?

Discuss.

 

Off topic: if you are going to get chipped no one is going to ask for your permission.

It seems many of us speak vaguely because we unfortunately know bits and pieces of information; however our information is very limited because we only see the tip of the iceberg.

 

If your scenario does in fact become true, it's a sad state this world is in and our forefathers that sought liberty for their succeeding generations have failed miserably.

 

Look Rob, I tried debating you strictly on facts. I stayed on topic and asked simple, strightforward questions.

You absolutely failed to answer my or anybody else's questions. You wouldn't even try.

I mean look how you opened this thread. "Everyday I sit here at my desk and obsessively research and analyze what's going on, in an endless quest to uncover the truth".

I mean seriously, what a massive steaming pile of bullshit. You can't back up a damn thing you say, you just start ranting and accusing people of being in on the conspiracy for daring to disagree. You sound like a scientologist, totally sucked into the cult and taught to lash out at anyone that disagrees.

 

Pepik you are such a troll, it's all documented with names places and the people in power that voted them in.

This just makes me all warm and fuzzy.

 

Troll = someone you disagree with who gets their facts right.

 

Dude

I’m still waiting - what is your answer, what should people do?

All you seemed to have suggested so far is that people should ‘prepare’ and ‘rise up’ to stop whatever it is that’s going on.

But I ask again what does that mean?

In what way do they ‘prepare’, if you mean just talking endlessly about the Illuminati and devil worshippers that doesn’t seem like preparation it seems more like sticking your head up your arse.

You see my problem so far - all I’ve heard from such people as yourself and Rat are things that would just allows the wealthy elite to gain more power.

Think about it – you can talk about the Federal Reserve for pages claiming it is a tool of the elite and that something must be done about it– but what’s your alternative idea?

A return to the gold standard?

How is that meant to reduce the power and influence of the rich elites? If anything it would probably make them more powerful.

**

 

Why do you feel the need to make stuff up to reinforce your flawed arguments, Balbus? Who said anything about devil worshippers? Where are you getting this from? Stop building strawmen.

Also, if you are going to continue repeating the same tired mantras (ie. "that would allow the wealthy elite to gain more power"), then you had better explain yourself and how it would do what you're claiming. You're good at repeating things, but you're not good at explaining them. Then you will accuse people such as myself of not explaining themselves, when I have done far more explaining than you ever have.

It's really pointless to argue with you, as you have made it clear you will believe only what you want to believe. You don't want to learn or even debate in an intelligent manner. You just want to play games with the same circular arguments over and over.

 

Holy crap hypocrite of the year award, Mr. "Repeat The Talking Points the Cult Tells Me to Say".

Holy crap liar of the year award. You fly into a rage when people question you and absolutely refuse to answer simple, direct questions.

Here's proof:

If monetary policy is set by the FOMC which is controlled by the BoG which is appointed by the President, what different does it make whether or not Regional Federal Reserve Banks are private?

If the private Fed creates debt to enslave America, why is all the debt issued by the Treasury?

How does fractional reserve banking work?

What entities print currency in the US?

 

1) Because the FOMC and BoG are nothing more than smoke screens, and its members all work for the private banks which make up the Federal Reserve and control the government through these private banks. It is designed for nothing other than to give the public the illusion that the FED is a government organization, when it's no more federal than Federal Express. It's not even listed under the government section of phonebooks, but under the business section, right under Federal Express.

2) Because the treasury is controlled by the same people who control the rest of the government through the Federal Reserve -- the private banks.

3) Fractional reserve banking is the act of printing money in excess of the reserves. The Federal Reserve has no reserves, so they just print the money out of nothing. So fractional-reserve banking is a scam of printing money out of nothing. It's an inflationary, counterfeiting scam perpetrated by an elite few who use this power to wage wars and control governments (and people) through debt.

4) The FED (its private banks) prints money through the treasury.

 

Rat

Why do you feel the need to make stuff up to reinforce your flawed arguments, Balbus? Who said anything about devil worshippers? Where are you getting this from? Stop building strawmen.

Who said it and where did I get it from?

YOU

To quote you directly – “Once people understand the esoteric symbolism behind Freemasonry and such secret societies as Skull & Bones and Bohemian Grove, they will understand that the agenda we are dealing with is in fact Luciferian in nature…Many people will probably scoff at such a "ludicrous" idea, and that is fine. Whether or not you believe in Lucifer or Molech worship is irrelevent. The fact of the matter is, members of the Global Elite do, and they engage in this activity regularly.”

Post 8 ‘The conspiracy’ what’s the point?’ thread
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144901

Are you saying that you don’t believe the elite are devil worshippers anymore?

**

Rat there are a number of threads that I’ve explained my thinking but you have fled from because you were unwilling or unable to answer the questions answered of you

Remember – “The Rat "I am willing to debate you" thread’?
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112948

The thing is that while the message you have tried to spread hasn’t changed, the disguise you have used to try and hide the message and paint yourself as against the elite has changed.

You were a libertarian until that didn’t work, then it was ‘not left or right’ but right wing libertarianism is better than most, but that didn’t work, so now you have come over all ‘back to nature’ presumably you or your handlers think that will fit in with the ‘hippies’.-)

But the bottom line always seems to be the same – the things you push would only seem to help the rich elites.

**

 

The burden of proof is on YOU to explain what I do that "helps the rich elites", as you are the one who is content repeating this claim over and over.

As for the the fact of those in the Elite being Luciferian... yes, many of them are. But what does "Lucifer" represent? Lucifer is the light bearer, represented by the morning star which represents hidden knowledge. You are the one associating this with the biblical version of "the devil." Many of the higher elites see themselves quite literally as gods, and they believe they have the natural right to rule over others they see as lesser.

So how does my reference to Luciferianism a few times equate to me continually "ranting about devil worshippers" or whatever it is you claimed? See, it is you who is slinging mud in your feeble attempt to marginalize me.

You can try to pigeonhole me all you want, Balbus. I really do not care. It simply shows how weak and flawed your arguments are.

 

Why are you guys still arguing over this? Tis getting a bit lame.

 

Rat, you are joke. A complete joke. You are only repeating what the conspiracy websites tell you to think.

I mean who would have guess that you would start going on about "The Fed". Well I would have guessed it. This is always the easiest way out of it - be vague, rant on a bit, then claim you've proved everything.

I have been trying for months to get you to stop using this cheap evasion. Months and months I keep asking you to stop referring to "The Fed" as if it were one institution rather than several constituent parts.

Here's my question again:

And your answer is: "The Fed is controlled by private banks".

This is a complete evasion. It is blatantly obvious. You know it, I know it. I've been chasing you on this simple point forever. The simplest thing - just to get you to stop referring to "The Fed" in terms so vague as to be meaningless - but you won't do it. You are perfectly happy to just lie and evade. It all comes down to this simple point - breaking down what you mean by the Fed, because without doing that you are not explaining your theory.

You know you have no answer, that there is no answer, but you have an easy solution. Just avoid the question forever.

 

So if I am "only repeating what the conspiracy websites" tell me to think, then why are you getting so angry and seem so adamant to prove me wrong (while not proving anything at all)? Why do you spend so much time contributing NOTHING to these forums, while arguing with someone who, according to you, is a loony conspiracy theorist that isn't to be taken seriously. (As if a violent warmonger who defends the neocon agenda is.) I would really like to hear your logic behind this since you apparently have all the answers.