how much land would you need...

how much land would you need to become completely self sufficient? hunting lands + land to grow your own food

 

there are so many variables that would go into figuring that out that it is impossible to give an answer to your question,,,,
types animals, how many ppl you providing for, how many types animals, what foods ya wanna grow or hunt, etc etc etc...

 

im jsut saying you personally, and i guess your family

 

we, dilligaf and i, could be completely self sufficient without hunting on 5 acres. that would give ample room for goats,chickens,a hog pen and gardens.

we currently have15 acres,and we only utilize,,id say less than 5 and its more than enough.

that bein said,you can expect a very large upfront investment,or many years of working towards it before being self sufficient becomes a reality.

unfortunately to drop out of the system by becoming self sufficient requires you to purchase land,tools,livestock,fencing,developing a water source,shelter for you and your livestock,food storage,and the list gos on and on.

but i digress...

 

those are very good ideas.. i never thought about the livestock part. how hard is it to keep chickens and get eggs?

 

by your self, completely vegan lifestyle, growing your own food and living and a very modest cabin/yurt/tipi.... an acer maybe less.

 

You'd do well to heed HHB & Dilli's advise. They know of what they speak.

My little farm is 5 acres and although it can be done on less (as Willy_Wonka_27 suggested), but 5 acres gives you some privacy & room to expand & try other things & room to have a small tree farm or maybe wood lot. Now I digress...

From my experience I'd say it's more a case of very large upfront investment AND many years of working towards it before being self sufficient becomes a reality. But don't let that put you off, if it's what you want, then it is well, very well worth it. For me it has brought an inner Peace I can't describe, and I don't think I could have found otherwise. It's not for everybody, but if you think it is and you try and then find it's not for you... at least you'll know & you won't spend the rest of you're life saying, "What if...".

A couple of other thoughts: If you really want to hunt there are plenty of National Forests & other public hunting lands (and fishing too) around that are free to use - that's cheaper than buying!! Next, I'd add rabbits to the list of animals, along with raising worms in the rabbit droppings under the cages. Rabbits are quiet, chickens aren't. But chickens are, I'd say, easy to raise - note: your results may vary.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

what if you have like, a really good amount of land to work with... say 60 - 80 acres...

 

what about it? if your a small family say a family of 4 looking to be self sufficient, your going to have your hands full caretaking that much land.



however it could be done but you will need tractors trucks etc. with that much land..

sure with 80 acres you could grow your own corn for ethanol,blah blah.

it ultimately gos back to the same thing.. MONEY...
you can have as grand a scale of being self sufficient as you wish,if you have all the necessary equipment,which requires again,,say it with me,, "MONEY"..

also,, the more land you you have the more taxes you will have to pay on it,therefore that means more trading in society for,, you guessed it "MONEY".

last i checked the tax office wouldn't except granola and fat back as payment..

dream as big as you wish, but you must look at things in realistic terms.

and please dont mention communal living on that much land as that creates a whole new set of problems both legally and financially.

 

Yeah, what he said.......

Your original question was...

I forgot to ask, what is your definition of "completely self sufficient"?

The answer seems to be about 5 acres. Now of course if you get more, there's nothing I know of stopping you from going into the middle of that 60 - 80 acres and carving out 5 or so acres for you home/farm.

Do you already have your eye on a tract of land that big? Have you priced that much land?

Tax office, power company, phone company, Internet Service Provider, the guy who sells cars, the guy who sells ___________________ (fill in what ever you want). Plus, unless you have deep enough pockets to pay cash (money, again) for the land, you may have land payments (again... money).

Yeah, the matter money, and the matter of Idealistic versus Realistic, those are a couple areas most folks considering a self sufficent life don't take into consideration.

Money: Maybe you (or anyone else reading this) have a big pile of it. Maybe you inherited it, or started a web site that Google bought, or something. For the rest of us, the thing I've seen more folks leave out of their planning is, how am I going to make money. It has been said, "The quickest, surest way to having a small fortune, is to have a large fortune and start farming." In this old hippie's opinion, based on my own experience & observation, a "farm" isn't self sufficent unless it generates enough cash to support its self, you, & your family (if any). Now keep in mind, that cash doesn't have to come directly from crops. Maybe you're a painter (artist type, not house type), or a web site programmer, or a writer of stories/books/songs, or at the farm you produce flavored/scented oils & vinegars, or ... well, it's a long list, but you get the idea. What I've seen work best is a combination of things. My definition of a "farm" is: an industrial complex of cottage industries.

Idealistic versus Realistic: What this boils down to is efficency and compromise. Here are some examples:

Idealistic: Solar Power...
Realistic: Have you priced a solar power system, with maintenance & battery replacement over a 20 or 30 year period? A lot depends on your location & local power company, but for me, here, the rural electric co-op put in 4 power poles to get to my land, put in my pole, and a breaker box for $168.45, which they refunded to me after a year of paying my bill on time.

Idealistic: Water from a well using a direct solor powered pump...
Realistic: Instead of the "up front" expense of doing that, I hooked up to the county water system and will be able to pay my water bill for about 25 years.

Idealistic: Baking bread totally from scratch (from growing wheat to out of the oven)
Realistic: I did this, once. In reality you HAVE to put some value on your own time & effort. That made my made from scratch bread the most expensive thing I've ever eaten.

Don't get me wrong, I stick to Idealistic as much as possible, totally organic, solar hot water, cloths line for drying cloths, cheap & efficent transportation.... oh, hell, lots & lots of stuff.

Oh, Hmmmm .... sorry, I guess I got a little carried away... wine & "other things" will do that...

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

well, it is already family owned. connected to hundreds of acres of county forest too

but yeah, i guess what i was getting at with saying the large amount of land is.. would you consider tree farming as a source of income?

 

Some of my acres were planted as tree farm before I got here and there are a lot of tree farm around this area. I would consider a tree farm an investment, because most years you'll make nothing from it. On the other hand, most years you'll have little or no cost.

Are the acres you're talking about already planted?

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

well, its a forest, we have done selective cuts twice now, and i think made a pretty good amount of $, and the forest seems to recover fine

 

well if you can live with only getting cash every 10 or 15 years ,selective cutting periodically is a way to manage it.

most timber company's here prefer to get it all at once. selective cutting costs them time,therefore your compensation is less..

also, depending on what trees you have there,3 or 4 cycles of select cuttin and youll have to let it sit for 20 years or more till next time..

the fastest growing pine the timber companys grow takes 25 to 30 years to harvest.

and those are genetically altered.

somethin to think about.

 

http://www.nepanewsletter.com/food.html

just one out of many food growing site lists.... search and you'll find what you need

 

Yeah this. No need for animals, although theyd be welcome to share the land too...id just make a few secure areas so they didnt overly nibble the veggies im a sucker for wild bunnies and squirrels and things
Im going off topic
The answer is not much

 

what are good things to grow in sandy soil? im going to try to do corn next year to see how it goes

 

why not go n check out the gardening forum or for god sakes actually research on yer own....

 

alot of elitist attitudes in this thread.. not surprising though

 

dood dilligaf is my old lady she is far from elitist..

i actually would take offence if this wasnt the internet..

what she means is, you seem to be expecting us to answer all your questions when there is a whole world of in depth information on the internet. far more than anyone would waste time typing here.

becoming self sufficient takes hard work and dedication. We cant keep answering your questions,whats next? you expect us to homestead for you?

take some initiative do some real research instead of fuckin around with the folks here... only so much helping can be done from a distance without seeing the actual area, soil, land, trees, water supplies etc.....