male abortion rights

All men and women need to take responsibility for their actions. No excuses. If the woman decides to carry the child to term, that is a human life. Not a "punishment". If we want the future to be brighter, lets start by giving the next generation a good start.

 

last i heard they were still doing trials in India for that and i twas not yet available for actual regular usage anywhere in north america (or anywhere else insofar as i know)... that is, if youre referring to the male birth control pill sine you just said male birth control

 

Whether or not you believe in the concept of Child Support, I tend to find it fairly intuitive that the existing system is more about punishing the father rather than the needs of the children. What especially bothers me is the excessive amounts some people are charged monthly - this should not be income dependent, but what should satisfice the basic needs of the child.

 

For a thread on male rights not enough is being said of the couple in which the man wants the child and the woman aborts the little bugger.

 

I don't think you can split this issue into two decisions, which is what everyone assumes it is.

Do you want to have sex?
Yes.

Do you want to face the reality that there is a chance (not a "risk") that this woman may become pregnant/one or both of you may soon come to know genital warts if you have sex, whether or not any of you use any protection?
No.

It's one damn decision. Make it. That child is a being, not a consequence either of you have the right to just drop without seriously thinking about it. Whether the child is aborted or not doesn't matter to me. It's making the decision the adult way. The way this idea has been presented seems to be a very carefully worded, though childish way of saying, "She did it. She should clean it up," when you both made the mess.

Now back on topic: I think the whole thing's absurd. I'm absurd too, I know.

 

If a MAN is responsible enough to do the deed then he should be responsible enough to take care of it. Don't get confused here. I said

MAN.

Boy... runs to mommy

MAN takes care of his shit.

 

Again, this highlights the problem.

Men ought to "take care of their shit". I'm sure that most people, regardless of sex, agree that a man must not ignore situations that may pose a problem for other people.

What this discussion has failed to do is address the underlying problem. This isn't a thread on the ethics of abortion. It is a thread on the rights, or lack thereof, that men hold with regard to aborting someone elses pregnancy .

The overwhelming majority of the population recognizes the female right. However, ought men have any right to force abortion on the grounds of something like potential future harm? The harm that might be caused by a child seeking out their father in adult years. Is there any argument for awarding any right whatsoever to the of the father?

Perhaps a better question might be to ask whether eliminating a mans say in the matter of abortion impedes a reasonable way to "take care of his shit".

 

How would you even legally enforce this, if it is in fact decided that it's his "right"? What if there's a couple that intentionally have unprotected sex, then within the "time frame" break up, and the man leaves and tells the court that she can't force him to be a father. Do you have to bring the broken condom to court? How is that fair to the mother? There are loopholes that will make this never happen.

Unmotivated -

I'm sorry, but the man needs to show some repsonsibility also. Don't put it all on the women. If you're gonna have unprotected sex with a woman, and you're not sure she's on B.C. (and you don't want children), you better find out. That is your responsibility as well.

 

If you do it within the time frame of an abortion, the woman has the choice to abort. If she doesn't want to do it, for ethical reasons or whatever, the baby becomes her problem because it was her choice to have it.

 

I like your reasoning, but how do you determine when a life is inside the mother and not just a group of cells?
this is something that can't be answered, however while the woman may be expelling fetus, its argueablelly still a life form, so this arguement isn't as black and white as you seem to be making it out to be
S

 

It's interresting that the matter is not black and white, but we gotta treat it as such because we don't know. Which makes abortion a matter of choice.

 

if we knew that there was a life form there moments after conception, I wonder if it would make a difference
S

 

What I was saying was, how would it legally "become her problem". Does the father bring the broken condom to court and say "But I didn't want to have a baby, see I used a condom!" And the judge would say, "Okay, you're out of the baby's life." No, that won't happen.

You also have to realize that some women are morally against having an abortion. Why would it be entirely her fault, or "become her problem" if she kept to choose it? Last I heard, it takes two people to make a baby.

 

A man that fathers a child, then buggers off without so much as contributing some child allowence, is not only a poor excuse for man he's a poor excuse for a human being
S

 

I agree That men should have the right to abdicate paternity. It would in some ways make life easier for both parties.

So many people I know have had the fathers of their children walk away for the first year of two, never pay support, refuse to aknowlege the child as theirs, then demand to have rights to the kids as soon as the 'baby stuff' is over and they're old enough to take to a football game.

If they really, really don't wan't kids they shouldn't have to have them. No one should be forceibly saddled with unwanted children. but then, just as with an abortion, there is no going back. The decision must be final. Thats where they'll have to take responsability. They'll have to make that lasting decision, just as a woman who gets an abortion does. The'll have to be damn sure.

On the other hand wouldn't this contribute to a lot of social problems having a bunch of abandoned kids with mothers struggling to support them?

I'm not so sure as this is often the case anyway. At least it would remove the extra burden of an ex demanding rights he has alredy abdicated by walking out.

Just my opinion. I'm simplifying of course having never been in the situation myself.

 

they don't HAVE to have them, their only resposibilty is providing finicial support, they are not forced to be with the child
S

 

anyway it goes both ways, so some men may think they should have abortion rights, in the big picture, when you think that if a woman doesn't want a baby but she gets pregnant, she has 3 choices, abort, adoption or just have it anyway, 3 very difficult and potiently damaging choices for the mother.
the dad can just turn and walk the other way and many of them do.

maybe if more men took resposibility for children they didn't want they might start to get more rights
S

 

I like all the interesting Catch-22's that go along with this.

Women always say it's "her baby." "Don't take my baby away from me!" and the courts grant custody 95% of the time... even if you're a woman who lives on welfare, and the father is a guy with a steady job and prospects, the woman can still get the child, and then the father is stuck paying child support while barely getting to see his kids.

Okay. If women want to "own" their babies, let them. Don't make the man pay out his ass.

The courts largely, and many feminists, view men as nothing more than "sperm doners". This is why men rarely get custody of children. It's "her body", and "her baby".. yet if she chooses to have it, it fucks the man financially. It's "his kid" when she wants child support, but it's "her kid" as far as everything else goes.

There should be some sorta contract between a man and a woman. Lay it all out, legally.

If a woman wants an abortion, the father must, legally, be informed, and confirm that he has been informed. There should be a penalty if neither party does their part.
If a woman ever has an abortion for non-medical reasons, she waives the right to child support for the rest of her life, because it's "her body", "her kid", not his.
If a man does not want to have a kid, the woman should sign a waiver that it is not his responsibility if she gets pregnant, and the choice to abort or support it herself is her's alone to make.

Until women let us have our share of the kid, we should not pay child support. I know that I would not want to hand over money to a woman who stole my son/daughter from me, to date someone else, have that new man be called "daddy", to be villianized to my own child "your father doesn't care about you", and then to risk jailtime due to unemployment and failure to make a payment, while she is still free, fucking some other dude, enjoying time with my child. Fuck that BULLSHIT. If the woman chooses to have a kid that's HER CHOICE. If she wants to pull the whole "it's my kid, I get custody, it's my body, I'll abort if I want" then she should be 100% responsible for it.

 

Ha. Why would any woman do that?
If a man does not want to have a kid, he should be more responsible with his penis. Women don't grow babies all by themselves.

And what if the father cannot be found? The mother should be penalized? That doesn't make sense.