Assumptions about God that piss me off.

them

nax


Then you haven't tried hard enough.

 

tried what hard enough? wallowing in the same self deception i'm surrounded by? because two or more people aggree to the same arbitrary assumption?

there's no reason there can't be anything (non-physical), just equally no reason it has to resamble anything anyone thinks they know about it.

=^^=
.../\...

the assumption that offends me is that for anything to be big, friendly and nontangable it has to either be infallable or to have created everything.

almost as offencive as that of hiercarchy being intrisicly bennificent and any lack of it intrinsicly harmfull.

or that the artificial realities of symbolic value and human society are the default condition of anything.

=^^=
.../\...

 

O you haven't tried hard enough to be yourself! None of us ever do!

 

Yes, God gave us free will. He also gave us the ability to come up with a concept as far fetched and unfounded as "God".

You seem to be talking about the direct causes of the deaths of people. What you seem to be upset about is that people attribute deaths and destruction to the indirect cause of their death.

Where is Hell? What planet is it on? Have you visited Hell? Have you heard any first hand accounts from someone who has visited Hell?

Please enlighten me. Who exactly is God, where did he come from and how did he put these things in motion?

 

if god created everything......and he knew how things would end up when he created things the way that the bible says he did.....
then....
god is just passing judgement on himself

 

relayer, you keep talking about perceiving an astral plane. and not having mental walls. im sorry but i was baptized catholic. i grew up being a hardcore believer. fighting nonbelievers. i tore down my mental walls, i expanded my thinking, i took a step back and looked at religion and the world. i became an atheist

 

A man, flesh and blood.

Now to turn it around, if god does exist, what are you?

 

a "biological" toy?

 

some things work better by NOT trying to force them. if i wasn't myself, who or what else would i be?

i know a lot of people DO seem and act like their existence begins and ends with what they think other people expect of them. mine with the kind of world i would rather be living in.

which may not be exactly the same kind you or someone else would.

which is maybe alright too. as long as we don't add to the amount of suffering that there is, imagining somehow we are not increasing the likelyhood of our own by doing so.

sometimes trying too hard, i don't know if you're familiar with the concept, can be just as self defeating as not trying at all.

but as for being yourself, your self is that inner spark, not all the layers of expectation it is smothered by. and those layers of expectation INCLUDE the 'knowledge' claimed to be possessed by others, of what no one truely an honestly possessess knowledge of. and likewise, sometimes, even by our own selves.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I actually believe neither in god nor free will.

Here's why!

Edit: technical error.

Anyways...IF there is a god, and this god created all that is, effectively "setting it in motion," while at the same time know what path the universe would go down, then there is really no such thing as free will. Because of that initial choice to create a throw a rock down a chute he could see in its entirety, he made the choices for us before we could truly choose, and we are destined to make the choices as he chose them, with our rationale as he knew it would be, and without any other real course open to us. He knew that if he set things in motion this way, this EXACT course of events would occur. Hence, with the conception of god that most americans hold true, there can be no free will.

IF there isn't a god, quite the same is true. However the universe began, or at least this one that we live in, it did. The electrons and quarks were all in a certain arrangement, in certain motion, and in the resulting years, this pattern could produce only what we see now. All we are and do and think is determined by movement of atoms and electrons and such, as well as their relationships with each other. If one quark, 16 billion years ago, was 1x10^-30 from where it was, I expect things would be substantially different, somewhere in the cosmos.

 

themnax:

Some sort of friendly non-harm wishing entity perhaps, a pokemon so perfectly attuned to the intangible we no longer care it's there.

You mean like being constipated but nevertheless feeling obliged to sit on the can?

Don't be too sure of what the self is not! It stops at nothing, and what is 'indivisible' divides us like nothing else!

 

Children die from cancer because they get it

Nahh, seriously though? Children die from cancer because if God were to choose that fate only for evil people, it wouldnt be very fair to those who were evil, now would it? Killing evil people only would contradict free will because it impedes on their will to be evil, a choice which they should be able to take upon freely, only if to suffer the consequnces of their decision in the afterlife; it's much fairer if people die by a random factor instead of by God's choice.

But God didn't 'make' every person in the world so to say, a person's DNA, family, and environment determine just what kind of person they become. You could argue that one's soul was made by God, and guides the person's life choices to a good degree, in addition to the factors I just said, which I guess I could never disagree with or prove wrong.

(But I'm saying this all as if I believe in God, which I don't quite at the moment, but maybe one day my ideas will build up into it)

 

ahhh...a deist!!

 

Why do these conversations go on and on and on and on and on ????Faith is Faith.Proof is nowhere to be found, because if there was proof of the nature of existence,god ,etc-----there would be nothing to discuss.Why can't people face it--WE ARE NOT MEANT TO KNOW!!

 

Says who?

Everyone has a connection to "God". The ability to discover that within yourself will be the greatest moment of your life. You experience directly what God is. No religion can touch the truth of what you yourself will see.

The ability to explain what you experience is another matter.



x

 

Says me.Everyone has many connections.To all of humanity because we are all alike, with some minor differances in skin color,hair,height,weight.To our ancesters and our living relatives by dna,blood type ,resemblences,ect.These are the ones that we know and can see and understand.Granted ,there are mysterious situations that take place that we know happen,but do not fully understand.For example,esp,pre-cognition,channeled writing by people that write in languages that they never learned and so on.Some of these thing have happened to me and others I know.But why would I ascribe these occurances to anything tangible at all?I guess my attitudes may be said to be a "typical western way of thought".I just think that many things that happen in life are not to be understood by us in our present form.(gotta run--son's playing music tonight--Fun for me)-------scratcho

 

Re your son's concert: I think you have your priorities right. But I have problems with the "some things are not meant to be known" idea. How do we know that, or, if it's true, what those things are? And if it's true, why are you on this site? I think most people don't like to question the truths they were taught on their momma's knee, and think there are far more fun or practical things to do, like screwing and making money. But lots of folks, like me, find these discussions fascinating and helpful in getting a better understanding of my situation and how I might relate to the Big Picture.

 

everything anyone thinks they know about god, whether believer or disbeliever IS an assumption, other then that one or more of them MAY exist.

an atheist recognizes that there doesn't have to be gods in order for their to be beliefs, but in assuming there has to not be any, fails to ask the next question. an agnostic ALSO recognizes that there does not have to be any sort of religeons or faiths at all, in order for there to be a god, or even zillions of them.

by imposing, names, definicians, descriptions, what have you on the unseen and unknown, far from bennifiting any kind of real spirituality, rather barriers of self deception are imposed between oneself and the unimaginable diversity of would could actually be.

=^^=
.../\...

 

themnax

Everything? One or more of what?

Assuming there has to not be any? Why would an atheist assume that?

Then what on earth are you talking about when you say there might be zillions of gods?

 

Themnax.Yup.