animals were created for a purpose?

ok i thought i'd get some thoughts on this

this girl i went to schol with contacted me asking me about cooking tofu because she knows im vegan and we've been emailing back and forth discussing animal issues, she asked about why im vegan and we're doing that whole discussion thing.

well, she is pretty heavily xtian and she said that she feels bad for eating animals, but also realizes that animals were created for a purpose. she didn't say exactly what purpose, but given the context, i'd say that her argument is that god created animals for humans to eat.

i have a good idea of my retort, but i'd like to hear other opinions on the matter. how to tackle an issue like this? thanks...

 

All life exists for one purpose only, to
receive sensory information and compute
it naturally and internally.
Beyond that, everything is up in the air.
But, life exists to further the cause
of life, so I would think animals are here
to for no other reason than to
perceive and to progress. ~
We cant know "why" anything exists,
just that it does for the purpose of
awareness ~

 

I like your answer, Relayer.

Hmm, You know, I was just composing my retort to this mentally, and now it occurs to me that I don't think I could have this conversation. At least not with a creationist/christian. Any explanation I can think of, why anything or anyone exists, is evolutionary. I can't explain why anything or anyone was "created" (even, to an extent, manmade objects - because they serve some evolutionary purpose as well or else they wouldn't have been thought of) because in my reality things didn't just come into existence as they are now. Make sense?

I didn't say that to piss anyone off, btw, it was just one of those moments where I was mentally having this conversation with the fundamentalist Christian who lives in the dark deep recesses of my brain (for the sole purpose of conversations like this) and realized all at once this huge roadblock that always comes up for me in conversations of this sort.

That said, I'd be interested in homeschoolmama's ideas on the subject...

 

like i always say, you can't argue against religion with logic. it is kind of hard arguing with those who easily dismiss what you say because of their religious beliefs.

LOL that conservative christian lives inside my brain, too ahaha. but i dont' have to take him out too much because i'm already surrounded by them. you'd think i would be good at this by now.

 

That's why my meditation relies on the Holy Science ~

If you've read Autobiography of a Yogi, you should read
the Holy Science written by his guru.
It is beyond amazing ~

 

I was going to say what hummblebee said...since I don't believe we were created, but instead evolution...I could not have that consversation unless that was addressed first.

 

Ah, but Annie, where did evolution come from? :tongue:
haha sorry, nevermind, pretend i didnt say that ~

 

^^ lol, my love makes fun of me for exactly that sort of thing. I'm religious like Albert Einstein was religious/spiritual. It's not pure science or logic, but I can SEE the pure science and logic underlying everything, and when I step back to look at it all I can see the beauty and the harmony in it. I have a respect, reverence, and passion for a universe, dimension, plane of existence, where everything can fit together in such beautiful harmony.

 

And God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is a living soul, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so." Genesis 1:29-30

I does not sound like animals were originally created for us to eat, according to the Christian Bible. Though I would not start an arguement with passages from the Bible as there are just as many that support vegetarianism as eating meat. But it could not hurt to share this with your friend.

"Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox with hatred within." ~ Proverbs 15:17

But there is not a way to win a discussion against someone's beliefs. You will probably just have to agree to disagree and let her know that while we obviously can eat animals you prefer to try to eat in a way that has the least amount of suffering and leave it at that.

 

RELAYER i cant believe your only 22

 

Well, it's true lol
Thank's rebel, you are always so nice to me.
I think I just began to see life in a very
different light when I was 20 and my son
was born.
That completely changed everything for
me, behaviour and perception.
I honestly, was atheist before Jack was born
and also before I had read Autobiography of
a Yogi by Yogananda.
My son showed me that being born is the
same as death, another form of birth, just
this explosion of energy and light.
Everything became loud, louder than a concert,
and everything was so bright and jubilant.
I dont really know how to describe it.
But the Autobiograpy put all of it into perspective
for me and gave me a calmness with which
to approach God

 

Maybe your body is 22, but don't try to fool me dude, I know your real age

As for the original post, "animals created for a purpose." I believe that their purpose is simply their existence, the existence of their consciousness. And that is why I do not eat meat - consciousness, both my own and theirs. To eat a conscious being is to eat myself, and I'd rather not eat myself unless I have to I believe in evolution, so am tempted to say that animals were created so that we could come about, but that would be to imply that animals before humans had no worth, which is just ridiculous.

I do think it is true that humans are on a different plane than animals, and some take this to mean that animals are meant only to serve us. Is this correct? My intuition says that it isn't. If animals are our subordinates, I feel it is that much MORE important that we treat them with love and kindness. A tiger doesn't understand its destruction when it mauls a person, but humans fully understand what they do whenever they pull the trigger. Plus, I think many animals are far more pure and beautiful than most humans, so I don't know about them being inferior in the first place.

 

the purpose of all life is to survive and pass on their DNA .....for that is what all species are.... different combinations of DNA.

sensory input, feelings, emotions and logic are simply byproducts of previous winners on this ancient game of survivor.

as for comments like god created animals for humans ...simply point, laugh and say "I gave up fairy tales when i was six"

 

adam n eve were vegetarian. end of argument.

 

but if the person in question believes that creation myth, then even with that basis their conclusion is false. i know a logical conclusion cannot come from a false premise, but in this case it doesnt matter.

 

The World is ours to do what we may to it including all beasts, birds, fishes, minerals in the ground, water, wood, air, everything.

It belongs to us by might. Humans are powerfull enough to subdue and control everything on planet Earth. The Creation Myth just gives an intelectual underpining to our posession by power. This is and old point of view that goes back before The Bible to the paleothic age.

Any rights enjoyed by beasts are enjoyed by our sufferage and are subject to revocation.

The new thinking is that beasts enjoy inherent rights and freedoms against man, but this point of view is in the minority. ( at this time )

 

^This is just idiotic. The same bullshit was said by slave owners. They honestly believed that they were superior to black people because of the arbitrary distinction of skin color. In fact, many of these fools used the bible to back up their "superiority", by quoting passages which stated that slaves must be obedient.

This same moronic logic was used by men in stating that they were/are above women. They quote the bible verses which state that women should bow to their husband and that women have no right to teach. (Read 1 Timothy and try not to throw up). The arbitrary distinction of sex (male vs. female) was used by these pigs to put women below men.

And it doesn't shock me that these same dipshits are using the bible to support their consmption of meat. Simply because of the arbitrary distinction of species, we view animals as below us, allowing us to torture, slaughter, test upon and eat them. And just as the slave-master and wife-abuser who hid behind the bible, the meat eater is simply living a life of sin through great denial.

The bible is honestly responsible for more hatred and despair than any other religious text ever composed. It gives more people more reasons to do bad things than any other text. Think about it: Gay marriage is wrong (The bible says so), Animals are ours to consume (The bible...), Women are less than men (...the...bible), Slaves should obey their masters (the....BIBLE!). Honestly, Jesus Christ was a great man, but the bible and Christianity in general has been hijacked by completely unknowing morons who REALLY love power. These greedy people have twisted and tweaked Jesus' teachings in order to support their immoral yet convenient choices. Think about it: it's very convenient to have slaves, have women as subordinate, consume meat and deny marriage to homosexuals.

Honestly when Jesus comes back to earth, it's likely that those who claim to be his followers will be ignored, and those who are full of love, sincerity and purity will be embraced. I'm sorry but no matter how many Hail Mary's you say every night, if you're enslaving people, eating meat, abusing women and denouncing homosexuals you are a bad person.

 

Wow. I'd like to make a few points. I think that Christian service is one part of the church which is exception. The fact that these devotees are invaluable to humanity and the universal well-being can never be denied. However, Christians who allow a religion to dictate their lives, make moral decisions for themselves and ultimately rob them of their individual ability to be considerate( outside of the dictated boundaries) are really missing the point.

I am not a big fan of sectarian religion. I personally believe in the possibility of a universal spirit but all theses seperate sects have done is catered to the human need to "compete". If you think about it, every member of the religious community has been taught to "look down" on those who practice a seperate faith. This naturally triggers a certain vehemence along with a passion in following religious laws, as they grant a great deal of perceived grace and happiness. Beyond this, humans cling to the fact that there is something more, so as to put themselves on an artificial pedistal and justify their lifestyles. We are, in this way, trained to think that we are supreme beings created with a purpose in mind and a path which leads to MORE. But that ant we step on while walking to church simply dies. If you believe in Darwinian evolution as I do, this makes about as much sense as the guy above me's arguments. As if a certain spirituality simply skipped over the other species, falling into the hands of us supreme HUMANS, the chosen ones! Just literally a ton of overly optimistic, ego driven crap.

Now...if you truly believe that the "more advanced" beings deserve to live off the "lower beings" what is your feeling on retarted humans. They are surely lacking in intellect and skill and would probably barely survive without human intervention. I personally see it as my duty to help such people (NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE PEOPLE BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE BEINGS IN NEED). For you to look at a cow, a being surely less able than a human, but not less ALIVE...and regard it as nothing more than a meal...but to look at a retarted member of your species as one of "GOD's Special ones!!!" is absoultely base. When slaves were brought over from Asia/ Africa (yes, the first slaves were from CHINA) we rationalized abusing them on the fact that they were of a different, weaker race. However, if a "weaker" white child was birthed he was seen as someone to be cared for and nourished (I know later on retarded kids were often taken advantage of/ disregarded but this was only when the general mentality was that they were "diseased"). This logic is flawed in every sense. Please stop being ignorant enough to cling to a system of antiquated beliefs and open your minds to all faiths and ideas. Admit that they trapped you (hell, they had me for a while) and move on steadily. Realize that religion is made by man, as a way to elevate our status because we are ego-driven and ignorant when it comes to "spirituality". And no, you can not call me "intollerant" I simply recognize that pitting believers against believers is counterproductive!

By the way, look up why Martin Luther King Jr's son became a vegan. He described it as a logical extension of his father's own fight for the weak.

Peace and Boca Chicken Grease,

JIM

 

And by the way...for anyone who questions that religion would last SO LONG if it were fake. Just realize how very convinced you once were that Santa Clause existed...just ponder that for a while.