Atheist Faith

Which him?

The him with the multiple personality disorder? The him without the multiple personality disorder? The him that belongs to a family of Godots? The him that wound the clock, and wandered off? The him that equates to hero worship? The him that equates to an alien being? ... Or, any of the miriad of other descriptions that have been given for Godot?


Peace

 

Godotcom

 

We haven't even established the existence of one godot and now there are a whole squad of godots! It is godot the incomprehensible, in all his conceptions, who failed to appear, and so remains incomprehensible, in his divine non-existence.

 

I can't beieve I just read that whole thread - it sounded like a few argueing about the meaning of a word a few little kids chiming in and a few logical people trying to speak to the word police and the little kids jumping up and down trying to be heard


I believe in Zeus- let the christians tell me I'm wrong or for that matter the jews and muslums also

 

Mrugly

You believe in Homer?

 

I've seen atheist 'proofs' against the divine ranging from pseudo-philosophy, to a mathematical equation stating that staistically, no God could exist because no amputee has ever had their limb spontaneously regrow.

None of these, ever, has been complete or actual. I am not taking either side in the argument by saying that by the very nature of the divine, you cannot disprove it. So yes, any atheist claiming to believe in some 'proof' of there being no divine is taking just as large a leap of faith as anyone who believes in some manner of divinity.

 

The nature of God is commonly agreed by theists to be beyond our limited human comprehension. So what point is there in spending time on the topic? If God demands that people believe, or that they worship him, then God sounds insecure and vain to me. It was once said to me that when Buddha was asked what God was like he told his students not to waste time worrying about it. If God is unknowable, undefinable, and beyond our ability to comprehend, then it seems rational to me that there is little point in pursuing the subject. If there is no God, or if there is a God, does that mean one should live their life differently?
I don't think I would change, although if I did receive proof of God I might. It is hard to predict that.

 

It is written that God demands worship... yes that's true... But the way I have come to understand it, there is a reason why god has demanded worship and it's not because he is an Egomaniac. Being in a "grateful" or "thanksgiving" state of mind is necessary to have your mind, body, and soul in alignment. I strongly see this as God's point for stressing this fact. It's not necessarily for his own indulgence but for our own overall well being.

 

What it really does is align the followers in a sheep like mindset willing to use the excuse of God to wage wars and conduct genocides and countless other acts of ignorance. People have been bred to kill in the name of God for 10 million years thus guaranteeing that this mindset or tendency is a dominant trait.

 

You are only truly Happy: When you body, mind, and soul are in alignment.

You become in an overall feeling of "un-happiness" as a result of a dis-alignment of these 3.

Wars, and other CATASTROPHES of Cosmic proportions are a direct result of widespread or collective "unhappiness".

I see what you mean though, it can be easy to have "God" become the reason for being unhappy. (The best example that comes to mind is these debates right here LOL!!). But I will remain steadfast to this fact, God, was never an EXCUSE, for anything. It just so happens God, was at the origin of the imbalance of mind body and soul for a large collective group of people at the same time.

These people were just ignorant and didn't get "the big picture".

 

God was never an excuse for anything, god doesn't demand anything, god is nothing in itself.

What's the "big" picture Nik?

 

"the big picture" ... ... ...

What I FULLY consider to be "the big picture" would take a small book to explain...

In very simple terms, its how we are all interconnected through a loving energy that surrounds us all.

 

If we define "God" as huge, giganitc, ethereal, omnipotent arangatang that just popped out of nothing and zapped into existence the universe than got out of doge and dosen't give a rats ass about us, then yes, it could exist, out side of my knowledge, but If we are talking about the bible God here, then no, it cannot exist.

 

But Kal, how is it possible to define anything 'outside' of our knowledge?

This is the end of agnosticism.

 

If I treated every religion on the same level of credibility and believed in everything, everyone says, I would have to believe in thousands and thousands of gods/goddesses and thousands of other supernatural entities and creatures, and most of them being completely contradictory to each other. The fact that there isn't any evidence of them existing is evidence that they do not exist and people have looked all over the place with giant telescopes, electron microscopes, deep sea submarines, space probes, particle accelerators, people have climbed the highest mountains and into the lowest valleys,etc, these god/goddesses people speak of are no where to be found because they don't exist outside of people's minds.

 

Well before there were high powered telescopes, and suffiecient data available, people held the belief that the earth was flat. They didn't have the technology to make any other informed assumptions. Thus, anything else was considered "outside of their knowledge". Now, "a" god can very well exist, outside of my realm of knowledge, because we cannot yet scower the entire universe to look for such a being. When the times comes when we can make interstellar flights, and we don't find a god, then no, it cannot exist. Untile then, I'm an agnostic when it comes to a random god, but if we're talking about the God of the bible, then no, it cannot exist.

I'm kal btw. I changed accounts.

 

Anything else? What else? Do you see?

 

I agree with that. I have shared this view before. And in the past I would have truly believed in the rest of the post as well. Personally, I do not believe in a higherpower because other people tell me to, or how other people tell me to... This would make me a hippocrite, and brother... I ain't no hippocrite.

However, I must say finding GOD, or a higher power, or whatever you want to call it, is a very subjective experience... ...

At first glance, yes it could be easy to think so... But humans are stupid.

We have to EXPLAIN to RATIONALIZE to PROVE everything with a tried tested and true method.

I know one thing, if you sit down, and just observe how all that "IS" around you behaves you do not need a degree in rocket science to catch on to "patterns" in the occuring things around you.

Shit, I catch many of my Atheist freinds who often blurt out sentences like: EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND, I DON'T BELIEVE IN LUCK. ETC ETC ETC.

Even these hardcore atheists deep down, have caught glimpses of how we are at least all interconnected otherwise they would not have to fall back on such statements to rationalize what has taken place in their expererience.

But hey it's like I said, it's all a subjective thing. It's all about perception... you say it's a delusion. That's funny, because it's simply watching natural behavior in the universe and the elegant patterns and laws that govern it that have led me to believe in a GOD. There is no brain-wash element, or phigments of the imagination in natural phenomenons?? Last time I checked a tornado is a really real thing. And last time I checked grass really does grow green, gravity really can kill, etc etc etc. The universe around us does really exist, and it's by watching it unfold, watching all these laws come together in perfect operation that personally i have come to the conclusion that there is something really powerful at work here. Something that blows my mind. And if there is somethign I have learned in my life, it's this, just because I can't explain how something works, it certainly doens't mean it doesn't exist or I shoudn't believe in it. Hell I can't explain how electricity works, yet I use it every day.

Peace and love,

Nika

 

You cannot prove that which whose definition is that it cannot be proven.
By those same standards, you cannot disprove it.
But you certainly can argue on the internet about it!

 

From my persceptive, I don't think that elegant patterns are reason to believe in a god. A simple equation, like iterations of Zn + 1 = Zn x Zn + C produces a infinitly complex repeating pattern, that is never exactly the same, twice. Fractal patterns like that are everywhere in the universe from plants to mountains to the human brain to galaxies. This is the kinda differential equations people learn in high school math classes. I would think that god would have a better education then that. I don't see any under/over lying principle that arises from the universe being fractally structured/natured that way other then the outcome of infinity complexity, producing novelty.