Migrant workers help UK economy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6766003.stm

Migrant workers have boosted the UK economy, with their influx not having a negative effect on employment or wage levels, the TUC has argued.


Foreign workers made a positive net economic contribution, it said, with their share of tax paid exceeding the cost of supplying public services.

But the TUC warned that workers were vulnerable to "unscrupulous" employers not adhering to employment rights.

Ensuring firms paid the minimum wage had to be a priority, it added.

'Substantial contribution'

The UK has seen an influx of migrant workers from eastern Europe since 2004 when a host of new countries joined the European Union.

This has fuelled concerns that workers willing to take low-paid jobs in sectors such as construction, farming and domestic service would depress wages and force other low-skilled workers out of jobs.

We do not do enough to protect vulnerable workers from exploitation


Brendan Barber, TUC



Publishing a new report, the TUC said these fears had not been vindicated, partly due to the strength of the economy in recent years.

"Migrant workers are making a substantial contribution to Britain's economy," said Brendan Barber, the TUC's general secretary.

"They haven't caused mass unemployment or held down wages as some would have us believe."

'Exploitation'

But the TUC said that workers with little or no English and no knowledge of their employment rights needed greater protection from exploitation.

"We do not do enough to protect vulnerable workers from exploitation," Mr Barber added.

"If migrant workers are treated fairly and paid a decent wage they can only add to the economy."

Recent statistics suggest migrant numbers from eastern Europe are well down so far this year, due in part to increased job opportunities and wages at home.

This has led to concerns about the impact on industries such as fruit farming which are dependant on seasonal foreign labour. Farmers have complained about the effect of caps on foreign workers introduced to encourage employers to recruit more locally.

 

I beg to disagree with the Tuc. I reckon:


Yes, migrants have boosted uk economy but they get handsome rewards, more priority than say the Queen herself. yes, I am thankful for migrants contribution. I take my hat off to them as they have, genuinely offered this country a fine service. But so do native inhabitants of this island.

Yes, migrants will continue to boost the economy with their invaluable foreign skills. But this all comes at a price. In the end, unemployment will go up because some employer conscious about his finances is far more likely to hire a Polish guy who is willing to get paid ten quid an hour, rather than some Bloke from Britain, native inhabitant who wants to work for the original wage of 20 quid an hour.

I predict higher unemployment amongst the unskilled natives. I predict also that with the cost of looking after aliens, the government will either have to raid the lottery or tax the country double just to make sure that natives aswell as migrants get a decent living. It is a nice idea to invite people in. But then you get to a point when you become overpopulated. This puts a strain on the very system that migrants would depend on, including us natives and then we would see inflation rise even further and well, everything that comes with overpopulation will follow, get worse and then natives will sort of like get pushed out of their own country because work is scarce and the system has finally crumbled.

Surely migrants could stay in France or atleast there should be some discussion as to what happens when Europe becomes overpopulated (as most migrants come from outside the EU.) I am not against migrants so don't mistake me for being racist or as some people might dub anyone with any concern with migration a ("neo nazi").

I think germans are good builders and well, France are better at transit system maintenance than Metronet. But then again, so are some citizens of the United Kingdom. It is funny, it gives Britain an impression that we cannot help ourselves so we have to get in migrants to make Britain great again. Just a wild thought.

 

they are in on the scam now - bought off by public money
what shit the TUC is - it should protect jobs not waste them

 

you can't blame someone for trying to get ahead in this world. you can't blame someone for trying to protect their livelihood, either. but the only thing that keeps the world from stagnating is inevitable change. there's not culture that can protect itself from change forever. and that's usually to the good. but every change has it's inevitable backlash and pain.

 

I don't have a issue with immigration per se but see how it can create a few issue

1. Cohesion - due to some workers only staying in the country for a short space of time - they are unlikely to form strong long lasting ties with the particular area they are working - they are unlikely to forment their knowledge of British customs / language / culture - . This is not a major problem - but may become one as the high influx of transient workers come into the country - the No.s are only increasing.
2. Misunderstaning - some ''natives'' are upset as they think ''their'' jobs and ''their'' wages are being either removed or influenced ''they'' exploit the benefit system.
Only the other week jobs supposedly ''taken'' by immigrants are being left empty - no ''native'' is taking the jobs and it seems that harvests will not be properly ''taken in''. ''They'' are going home [if the Germans/French etc have not taken ''their'' jobs] or moving to other E.U countries where the wages are higher.
Any economic students out there ? - Maybe in a small way immigration is effecting the overall wages [i dunno] - but I know we have a minnimum wage and I know if employers are going to exploit ''foreigners'' they are likely to exploit ''natives'' - that practice goes on regardless.
EVERY fucker with the will exploits the benefit system especialy the ''natives''.


I don't know of a time immigration has NOT benefited the UK economy - so do not really see the point of this story.

 

How many polish builders say - hey hang on its illegal to pay me in cash - I have to have a bank account and you pay by cheque - totally illegal ! dont add any money in to the UK tax system and not only they but the people who pay them should be sent to prison !!!

I have employed 3 polish and 2 hungarian builders but only if they have a bank account and can be paid by cheque

 

Is there any source for this? I hear the "immigrants coming over and taking our jobs" line far too much, and I'd love to be able to reply that the jobs they're taking were left vacant anyway.

 

that's pretty much my stance on it. we've got a major illegal immigration problem. i think arresting the people who pay them would be best. i really like the president amnesty bill, but the fuckers won't let it pass. what the fuck are we going to do? haul all of the out of here? i don't fucking think so. they're here. make them TAXPAYERS. where's the problem?

 

It is not a ''slam dunk'' of a arguement because a lot of people will say ''i don't want them jobs anyway''.


farmers issued a warning that soft fruit and salad vegetables may be left to rot because of labour shortages.
In a sign that east European migration to Britain may have peaked, the National Farmers' Union has told the immigration minister, Liam Byrne, that the numbers of EU migrants, including Poles, coming to Britain for harvesting jobs has dropped.


The shortage could see a rise in the price of strawberries.
A spokeswoman for Fruitful Jobs, a company which employs seasonal fruit pickers, said the problems were particularly acute this year.

"There is a shortage of fruit pickers from the UK and Poland," she said. "There has been a lot of negative press about the conditions the workers would have to put up with, which has put people off."

Philip Hudson, the NFU's chief horticultural adviser, said that Poles and other east Europeans were now less interested in coming.

"Their standard of living at home has increased more rapidly than anyone could have projected so they are now staying at home," he said. "Other countries, such as the Netherlands, have now opened their borders to them to work."

He said that 13 growers of soft fruit and salad vegetables needed 4,400 workers but were facing a shortfall of 2,400.

"There is a potential for crops to be left unharvested.

"We are talking about strawberries, raspberries and salad crops. I do not want to scaremonger but our real concern is that the harvest is going to be left in the field which will mean there will be less British produce in the supermarket."

The number of eastern Europeans coming to work in agriculture peaked at 22,700 in 2005 but dropped to 19,895 last year. The first three months of this year saw only 3,400 coming to Britain, well down on 12 months before.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/immigration/story/0,,2089619,00.html

 

Ronnie : Is it quicker and easier and more polite to ask to see if the person has a bank account - rather than looking at their passport ?.
I'd hope you pay ANY legal worker you hire the going rate and ask them if they have a bank account.
Regardless of where they come from.

The minority of LEGAL immigrants who will let you off the VAT may charge you a bit less I suppose - but I imagine that goes for ANY builder that is a ''VAT cowboy'' .

''totally illegal ! dont add any money in to the UK tax system'' - oh I think they do. They still have to pay for tools / materials etc. So yes they do pay some Tax - but obviously not enough.

 

I wouldn't consider it a slam dunk, but I think it's still a good point to bring up in such an arguement.

When I was supervising container unloading in DHL, I'd practically beg the team leaders to give me at least one of the Polish regulars. I'm not saying that the British temps were crap, and I'm not saying that there are no Polish lazy bastards, but they really seemed to be more dedicated to the job. I think it's to do with job conditions in other countries, but that'd be off-topic. In fact, it might have been to do with my leadership too, but off topic again...

 

I'm sure it is down to your leadership. .
But I presumed it was more to do with them having a light at the end of the tunnel. I think the majority - especially the younger ones. Are going to think : I'm not here for long - I'm sending a shit load of money home -
So they can have a care free and fairly good if not excellent work ethic.

 

As you know very well also in your previos disingenous argument - the reason those jobs are vacant isnt because there is nobody to fill them - its because miogrant workers will do a job for between 50 and 80% less than a citizen.
the fact is jobs are vacant because migrants are queing upo jobs while british firms remain idle - the only reason the government wants these migrants here is to keep the cost of living low and to ensure that workers have to compete for wages - lowest paid most hired - its a bullshit tory economy - one which offers low wages low security and low tax returned - which has a knock on effect - low wages = higher p[overty = more nhs resources and social services resources used
low job security = more stress = higher unemployment and illness and an economy where those who most need higher wages are forced to accept bad jobs in low wages - low tax returns = less money for services and infrastructure = its a complete bullshit economy considering 4 million are unemployed - they dont count anyone over 50 or under 18 and no single parents on unemployment, nor do they count those on sickness benifit
We are currently running a bullshit economy of 4 million unemployed
in a country of 37 million people of working age - one in 9 out of work
but with only 1.2 million officially registered unemployed also you are not counted on the unemployment register after the first year and the new deal massages the figures to the tune of 500,000 people that should be counted but arent it works like this - also there is no long term unemployment as you claim JSA after new deal as a new claim

 

How can freelance work be ''not filled'' ? - you are the person who is hiring or not. It is you who decides who you hire and how much you are willing to pay.

I must have not explained my point properly.
If you are paying a legal immigrant [just as much of a citizen as you asnd I] less money and they let you off paying VAT - that is the same as a your so called ''citizen'' charging less and not paying VAT. There is no difference.

If you hire somebody with a ''funny accent'' then sure you could be forgiven for wanting to know if they were legal and they were going to pay VAT.
They still have to declare their earning to the tax man - so I don't see how having a bank account makes a difference ? - apart from maybe proving that they are ''legal''.
I said is it more polite to see it they were legal asking to see if they have a bank account - over asking for their passport [wich seems a tad rude].

If you accepting a job at 50 - 80% cheaper than a legal/citizen is going to charge you - then who's contributing to the problem ? - that is why I said''I'd hope you pay ANY legal worker you hire the going rate''.

I don't think I was talking about any of that - but since you have mentioned this - i'll attempt to decipher it and appreciate what you are saying and respond when i have .

 

I was a migrant worker. I worked as a computer contractor in Amsterdam in the 1980s: I didn't form a permanent attachment with the country, nor did I become fluent in Dutch. On the other hand, I wasn't getting 50 - 80% less than the locals who were working alongside me, quite the reverse if anything. Of course there wasn't job security either, but in the end I quit at a time of my choosing rather than theirs.

 

It is against the law to pay casual workers in cash - this is to prevent fraudulent tax claims - when you pay for a builder to renovate all or part of your home - it is illegal for him to take cash - it is also illegal to take part cash and a cheque

 

That makes sense.
I see - so to keep everybody more legite - needing a bank account goes for every builder/self employed worker then ?. I was self employed [only for a month or two] but never got around to filling in a self assesment form :&

You seemed to be lumping every fucker into the same pile be they legal or illegal -

 

No the government does as you would know well !
its the one that says casual workers must be frausdulent bastards if they get paid in cash -

most builders I have had working on property lower the price if you will pay part cash part cheque - but I actually believe in an economy where fraud is not allowed for the simple reason I want an infastructure in the environment thats actually working and that is paid for from tax

to be honest I have never met a builder that was all that honest when it comes to tax and I have certainly never met one that was worth the money they were asking !!! they are at the edge of decent society cuz most of the work they do is fucking criminal for the money they charge - rip me off on materials - rip me on the hours they do - rip me on the quality of work - builders are fucking muggers with a bag of tools that do a bit of knocking and gluing and sawing then fucking mug ya !

 

There was a pretty interesting article in The Times Magazine about living the Polish dream in the UK. If you can...check it out.

 

It is interesting really when you consider that being a native of your own country doesn't have its perks anymore. It seems that being a migrant comes with all kinds of perks, rewards and bonuses all in its own right. Maybe I should surrender my nationality? Then come back in and claim asylum.