Religion is a form of psychosis

But what if society is going through some kind of collective psychosis? Is "fitting in," or, accepting and adjusting to a socially accepted but unhealthy mental state, is that sane?

What if you lived in Germany in the 1930's or the Confederacy in 1861 or Rome in the first century . . . or America in the 21st?

All I am saying is this relative sanity may not be as healthy as a conscious relationship with absolute reality.

Of course, what do I know? It is quite possible that I just don't "fit in" with the 21st century American paradigm.

Peace and Love

 

I would say sanity is the state of being able to use logic and reasoning to explain the world around you and distinguish between what is real and what is not real. I think insanity could very well exist without a society to compare it to. Of course, sanity is more than just that simple explanation, but I think that is sufficient for this particular thread. If you cannot use logic and reason and distinguish between real and unreal, you are either far lacking in mental facilities, or you are not completely sane.

In the same vein, it's really kind of a false dichotomy. Sanity vs insanity is more comparable to black vs white with all the shades of grey in between than it is to, say, a possession, where you either have it or you don't.

 

Sounds good, but I think there is more to it. I am all for logic and reason, but they are not the whole of reality. They are very good ways to organize thought, but they are not thought itself.

There are aspects of reality that logic and reason are just not refined enough to communicate. Intuition, inspiration, creativity, meaning, arousal, ecstacy, etc., you could spend a lifetime trying to craft some kind of logical, reasoned understanding of these things, but you won't "know" them until you experience them directly.

Of course, it is probably best not to think of it as an either/or kind of understanding. If you can think logically about creativity, find inspiration in a well-reasoned thought, have a good intuitive sense of a theory, and so on, then you are probably far more reality-oriented than those who are informed by either the blind faith of the Fundamentalist or the strict materialism of the Atheist.

Peace and Love

 

Varuna, I don't think there is such a thing as "collective psychosis," if most people are thinking it, then it is sane. Furthermore, I don't think sanity has anything to do with being healthy; "fitting in," or, accepting and adjusting to a socially accepted state' is exactly what sanity is and it makes no difference wether it is healthy or unhealthy. Don't think for a minute that I think this is right. I'm just saying from my experience what I think is.

For instance, nobody would have given what the Nazis did to the Jews during WWll a second thought if the Germans had won the war. In fact while they were doing it, there probably wasn't a Nazi in Germany who thought there was anything wrong with it and for that matter, was there anyone else in Germany at that time but Nazis. However the allies ganged up on Germany, they won the war and history has prevailed in their determination to to condemn the Nazis for what they did to the Jews.

 

religion is merely a way to cope with things. Our brains are too intelligent, we need some closure on facts we dont know, facts that scare us, like death, and uncertanty.
thats all religion is, a way to cope. beleiving in somthing can make alot of difference to ones mental state. this is where the psychotic theory comes in. to be believing this shit, and thinking about such extrodinaryily crazy things is seen as the only psychotic normal.
i might beleive in a higher conscioness, but certainltly not a set religion. and i certaintly dont let it change everything i do, like religion. fuck all of you who change for such weird shit, like the muslim religion and shit. there all on a psychotic trip, true cause they run round with AK's on suicide missions, thinking they'll end up in heaven with 7 virgin wives. fucking makes me sick. im strongly apposed of all forms of religion.

 

I know what you mean, but I have to disagree. One of the unwritten rules of science (and, for what it's worth, of mysticism and religion, philosophy, the arts, politics, academia, etc.) is simply, ultimately, reality exists. The health of the mind and even physical, social, and spiritual health can be measured by the degree with which an individual, or any number of individuals is attuned to this ultimate reality.

I believe religion, or Mysticism at least, is, ideally, an effort to attune to this ultimate reality.

To assert that reality is only what everyone agrees upon as real is to suggest that gravity didn't actually exist before Newton, that the earth actually was the center of the universe (a gravity-less universe of concentric spheres) until Copernicus suggested otherwise.

So where are they now? Jews did survive. Nazism did not.

Jews give it far more than just a second thought. In another three and a half thousand years, when Judaism is twice as old as it is today, there will probably still be Jews giving it far more than just a second thought.

That doesn't make the Holocaust any less insane. If you look at the pictures of Germany after only twelve years of Nazi rule (dutifully accepted by a majority of deluded Germans) it looks like some kind of post-apocalyptic hell-scape.

If you look at history, or any of the life sciences, you will see that dysfunctional or deluded organisms, those that do not pay attention to this ultimate reality, do not survive.

Why is that an injustice?

Peace and Love

 

Varuna

Naturally, because reality is infinite, not ultimate!

 

Religion is also a form of mind control.

 

who is to say who is delusional and who isn't? the government and a.m.a.? let the people freak freely. the problem most religions have is that they are still burning witches. the psychotic state is no different from the mystical, only the government wants to lock em' up. find a good place in the country where the neighbors won't be disturbed, add some LSD, those of a like mind, and start your own religion where you can blow peoples' minds, not preserve them.

 

If religions were a form of psychosis it would be a good thing. They really should be but the problem is they aren't, at least for the most part. They do have the potential and in a few cases succeed. There is still hope though.

 

Mati:

Hardly, it is bad enough they are a form of ignorance.

Religions all end in themselves, but it is not necessary that they do so apocalyptically.

 

In a recent NEWSWEEK Poll, Americans said they believed in God by a margin of 92 to 6—only 2 percent answered "don't know"

Like Occam says, "Sanity. Is the abillity to FIT in the current social framework.
To function, independently, withing tis thing we have made."


Ergo, you atheistic 6 percenters are simply insane!

Its the simplest answer... and the funniest.

What I think is psychotic is the group think shown here.

 

From the American Heritage Dictionary:
"SANE" - ADJECTIVE:

1. Of sound mind; mentally healthy:
2. Having or showing sound judgment; reasonable.

ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English sanite, health, from Old French, from Latin snits, from snus, healthy


The origination of sanity is tied directly to what is healthy not what others believe (majority or not) and also what is reasonable as in based in reason. Religion is based in faith not reason. How is believing a supernatural entity created the Earth out of nothingness, any different then believing an evil gnome steals my french fries when I'm not looking and beams ultra-low frequency radio signals into the fillings in my teeth to control my mind? They both sound pretty crazy to me and unhealthy.

 

The evil gnome stealing your french fries isn't entirely unhealthy.

You are right, sanity is mental health---there are degrees of sanity. What is generally considered to be sane, whilst a part of being sane, is not sanity itself.

To the theists and agnostics:

When do think we should stop playing hide and seek?

lol

 

who do you think you are... you think youre in control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-shZs2I4E4&mode=related&search=
I think youre crazy

(is this how you post video links here???)

 

CharleySpider,

My 'puter only plays those links sporadically, but I got the idea.

"Religion is based in faith not reason." dd3stp233, I don't think there is such a thing as objective reality therefore reason is just as much a faith as religion. Varuna talks about ultimate reality and some others have been talking about infinite reality. Are these the same as objective reality?

 

Says who?

Faith without reason is as incomplete as reason without faith. Faith is vital, reason is critical, and neither faith alone nor reason alone offers a complete and accurate representation of reality. You have to turn on the lights in both sides of the mind.

It seems to me that there are far too many people who accept or reject their faith without bothering to know its meaning. I would like to know why. I could guess why they do so, but that would only repeat the error.

Objective reality is only a part of it. Ultimate reality is the sum total of all reality. It is infinite and includes all realities. All time, every point in space, the very existence of every physical reality as well as the meaning of every non-physical reality, every thought, every relationship between any and all entities, even the things for which no-one has ever had a thought, not to mention a name, all of this is ultimate reality.

 

"Religion is delusion." Big deal. Are you as adamant with all the other reality based delusions, patriotism, nationalism, etc.? Do you really believe that you are better than another, that you can do anything and everything to get ahead and succeed, that you have willingly allowed yourself to be conitioned and manipulated by the media and politics, that says that you should buy this, wear that, eat this, drink that, all to be seen as being "cool" and "hip"? Every election some ideal is put forth and emotionas are appealed to. And you vote believing their lies? Delusion. You really think that censorship doesn't exist and that our way of life whould be forced on everyone else in the world? You think that prejudice and hatred aren't delusions?, that you haven't been conditioned and manipulated?, that there really are elite intellectuals which know best?, that there is a spreme race? Delusions all. So what else is new?

 

Varuna:

What is infinite is not ultimate and cannot be. There is no ultimate reality!

You mean infinite reality.

 

DejaVu

Reality is.. What is real. nothing else exists.
That is reality.
Infinite applies only in duration.
A concept, All infinites are concepts.
Not realities. There can be no such thing as a physical infinite.
Our universe folds on itself.
Reality, that which our universe is a part of. folds on itself.
Reality is the superset, our universe a subset.

There is no 'outside' reality. Those who deny this are simply those who cannot conceptualise nonexistance

And i have had some experience with this.
I ask people about nonexistance.many people. Very few can even offer a token answer..

Occam