realistic costs: land and a salvaged eco-home?

i'm in a psoition where i might have a small amount to invest in making a home for my kids. we're tired of living hand to mouth, and it'd be nice to settle in to something sustainable, with a garden and maybe chickens, so we'd be less dependent and have a good stable home-base for my vending business.

how much can i reasonably expect to pay for a parcel of undeveloped land? ideally with a creek for a hydro system and a hill to dig into for an earth-sheltered home? we'd want to be off-grid - how much can i reasonably expect to spend on a well and solar panels to supplement the hydro system?

if i was building from salvage, how much can i reasonably expect to pay to get a 3-bedroom home built? in terms of time, how long can i reasonably expect to learn what i need to know and gather what i need, assuming it was my first priority and could devote myself almost full-time? i have no building experience but would want to participate in the building process as much as practical. if i had to hire help, how much could i reasonably expect to pay for labor and education?

an eco-home, say in the finger lakes area outside of ithaca/cortland, is not something i have decided to committ to yet, but it is something i'm considering. i've been told i can do it pretty cheaply, building for around $5000. is that true?

 

It's hard to give a relistic answer since there are so many variables involved. I don't know how much land is in Finger Lakes region, but I don't think it's that outrageous based on some housing cost discussions I had when I spent a few weeks in Rochester this winter. Of course the further away from jobs and shopping the lower the cost of the land.

I've heard of people building low cost, recycled/salvaged material houses, but a three bedroom for $5000 is probably not that realistic unless you have the flatbed truck, tools, connections, strong back and all the time to dedicate. Building the shell possibly, but a finished home? Yes I have read those stories about folks that have done it, but I am speaking from experience. I am still in process building my 4 bedroom (small bedrooms) home. I am also building a 12' x 19' cabin from all recycled material. This cabin has about $2000 in cash in it and god knows how much labour hours at this point and I still have no roof, no electrical wiring and no heat source. I bought the wood and windows from a friend that takes down old structures for the materials, so if I had salvaged the stuff myself I would only have $500 in it.

Consider some of the things that you may not be thinking about. To start, if you are going for an earth sheltered building, you will need dirt work done and depending on what kind of land you have you may need to haul in gravel in addition to excavating out the earth you are building into. I had a 40' x 40' gravel pad made for me to build on. I had 12 dump truck loads of rock brought in and a small cat spead it out for the tune of $3000. I've no experience with an earth sheltered home, but I would assume you need concrete work for the rear and side walls that will have earth against them so there's more money. Driveway? More bucks.

What sort of building method are you considering? Many alternative methods, cobb, straw bale or log are self insulating, but there is always the roof that would need insulation. Fiberglass batts aren't cheap either and insulation is hard to find recycled.

Water and human waste disposal systems are another consideration. I have a small RV type water system and an outhouse. The water system with the storage tank, 12 volt pump, on demand water heater cost well over 2K. We lived for four years with no running water, heating water to bathe on the wood stove. In many areas in the US outhouses are illegal so another option could be a composting toilet to the tune of a couple of grand more. A true septic system is way more costly. Again local ordinances define what you can do with waste water. In our location we have no codes so I was able to dig my own gray water disposal system for cheap. You'll have to talk to some locals and see what you can get away with. Check into this closely because I know of a case in the NW where a disabled veteran was living in an old barn and the tax assessor turned him into the officials for living without septic and running water and squashed his life.

Your alternative energy system is another big expense. If you started with just a couple of solar panels, a couple of batteries and a cheap inverter you could make something usable for $1500. This would supply minimum power, enough for some lighting, music source, laptop, sewing machine etc. A power system that provided enough juice for a standard home can run in the tens of thousands of dollars. I've not messed with hydro power enough to say much about it, but NY gets pretty cold so I would guess a pretty serious approach is necessary to prevent freezing. Most every alternative system include a backup generator.

Heating is another area to consider. The most efficient oil heat systems are, IMO, Toyo Stoves or Monitor heaters. Again the cost adds up. A medium sized version, with the above ground fuel tank is another expense over $2K. You can find used woodstoves for a reasonable price, mine was $250 for the biggest Blaze King, but the proper stove pipe in expensive. This is one area I would never skimp. You want a double walled insulated pipe such as Metalbestos. The grand you spend on this being done properly could save your house and life in the event of a chimney fire.

One expense that I wish I would have kept track of for myself is all the little trips Home Depot where I blew from $100 to $400 for stuff. All the nails screws, door knobs, tape, etc., really adds up. I have no idea how much unaccounted money has gone into my place. When I planned our house what if figured I would have for $20K ended up costing me $40K. At this point I've probably got over $65K in the house and 21K in the 10 acres.

Like I said I really don't have that much experience with alternative building methods so if you have some folks who do as a resource definately persue it. Don't completely leave a more conventional frame house out of consideration. Being a novice when I started my project six years ago I opted for conventional 2x6 framing. One of the big reasons were the resources for advise and hired help. I have had very little paid help, but a couple of friends who are professional framers were well worth the $30 an hour I paid them for a weekend here and there. The four walls went up on my house in five hours. I had two guys being paid and some neighbors. For $300 and the cost of food and beer I had the walls up that would have taken me weeks to do on my own.

I hope I haven't discouraged you. I wanted to point out some the things that surprised me. At this point in my life, knowing what I do know, I could probably get my family into a 16X20 cabin for $5000. There would be no running water and a small generator with batteries for power. I have six kids so I really could not go that small.

Don't let your dream escape you. If you are willing to put in the time and effort your $5000 can get you started if you are willing to rough it for a few years. It really isn't hard to keep your kids clean with a galvanized tub and water heated on the wood stove, and crapping outside in the winter is kinda Zen.

 

There's a lot of good stuff in the excellent post from the good gentleman from Alaska. I can't say I disagree with a single word. But there are a few things I'd like to respectfully add.

Home construction: Another type of building technique you may want to consider is "Rammed Earth".

Here's the article from The Mother Earth News, September/October 1973, that got me started as a rammed earth fan: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading-and-Self-Reliance/1973-09-01/How-To-Build-a-Rammed-Earth-House.aspx

The Wikipedia Rammed earth article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rammed_earth

Here's a site about a father & son team with lots of first hand insite & more good links: http://www.diyrammedearth.com/

This is from Australia's guide to environmentally sustainable homes: http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/technical/fs34c.htm

Here's a good site that also leads to a lot more info: http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/rammedearth.htm
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Power: Let me tell you a dirty little secret, a sad truth. When it comes to starting out on an undeveloped piece of land, when it comes to the Grid vs Off-Grid, the Grid (if available) is much less expensive and more reliable as a year round electric source. That's why so few folks are living Off-Grid. It's a classic Catch-22 type thing - few live Off-Grid because it's so expensive, it's so expensive because few do it. Ok, that said....

As to solar power: The cost is coming down. Quote Wikipedia, "Solar electric generation is economically competitive where grid connection or fuel transport is difficult, costly or impossible. Examples include satellites, island communities, remote locations and ocean vessels." That's listed under advantages of solar power. You should read the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power . And also you are considering an area with one of the lowest solar power potentials in the nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Us_pv_annual_may2004.jpg There are tons more info sources, Google "Solar Power" and you'll get over 72,000,000 hits.

As to the Hydro power: Small hydro is the scaled down application of hydroelectric power. Small hydro can be further subdivided into mini hydro, usually defined as less than 1,000 kW, and micro hydro which is less than 100 kW. Micro hydro is usually the application of hydroelectric power sized for small communities, single families or small enterprise. So, what you'll probably be looking into is Micro Hydro.

Lots of web sites point back to http://microhydropower.net/ It's a good starting point.

And a really good site for Off-Grid power is: http://www.homepower.com/

For plenty of good Micro Hydro basic info try these sites:
http://www.green-trust.org/hydro.htm
http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/micro-hydro-power-pros-and-cons/
http://www.energyalternatives.ca/content/Categories/MicroHydroInfo.asp
http://www.microhydropower.com/staffpubs/staff9.htm

As best I know, none of them go into cost. I think that's because even though Micro Hydro is more reliable than solar or wind, it's very expensive. And it is more reliable. The sun doesn't always shine (clouds, night, etc) and the wind doesn't always blow, but water always runs downhill. But that brings in another problem. Pieces of land with good, year round flowing water cost more, sometimes a LOT more. Example - a few years ago, my extended family sold a piece of land on a river in south Alabama. It measured 170 feet X 110 feet, with the 170 feet river frontage. The property sold for the realistic, reasonable, apraised value, local market price of $1000 per front foot, $170,000.

That brings me to what are realistic and reasonable to expect costs. Realistic & reasonable depend on a few things. One is location. For example, FreeinAlaska said, "In many areas in the US outhouses are illegal so another option could be a composting toilet to the tune of a couple of grand more. A true septic system is way more costly. Again local ordinances define what you can do with waste water." Where I am, no one cares if you have an outhouse but I have a full septic tank & system - total cost under $1250.00. I couldn't afford a composting toilet, plus they don't handle all the black water and none of the gray water.

Anyhow, there's lots more to say, but poor_old_dad's poor_old_fingers are tired.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

We started our home 20 years ago and worked on it for 5 years be for we spent the first night in it.
I can't tell you how much we've sunk into our cabin, I'm sure my Mrs. could dig out papers on every dime.
But I do know our well, water line and septic tank were over 5K and that was 20 years ago.
We've tried to keep everything up to code or as close as you can on a log cabin, as we might have to sell some day.
As we get older it takes more and more energy to keep the place going....
Good Luck........Dennis

 

Kitty - you are fabulous to dream a home for your family.
I am a realtor in an area of the pacific northwest (whidbey island) where land is no less than $50k for the least expensive lot. So not a great spot for affordable housing.
The other posts were great- I wanted to tell you that my husband and I started to build a strawbale house with my daughter about 10 years ago when she was 17- it took about 2 years to get it ready for her to move into - with us working mostly weekends. we did almost all of it ourselves except the roofing, the sheet rock on some interior walls, the septic. Straw bale is a nice method for not expert builders- very forgiving and not so exact so you and volunteer friends can do a lot. The house is 1000 sq ft- one great room, one bedroom one bath and a loft. We had lots of volunteer help with the wall raising and stuccoing and plastering. We got salvage windows, doors, cupboards, light fixtures, hot water heater, sink, toilet, tub and probably a few more things. We kept pretty good track of expenses including permits, soil test, septic design, installation, materials and labor (not conting our thousands of free labor) we came out at about $35.00 a square foot- or $35,000 and it is a sweet house.
that was a few years ago and lumber is more now.

I think the post was right that you could do a very simple one room cabin for maybe $5,000 with salvaged material- but 3 bd- solar panels and the works- probably not. at least not built to code with septic system and all- or maybe you would be on sewer and city water to simplify the process.
One other idea is to look into free salvaged houses- slated for demolition- moving them may cost $20,000 or more with the foundation, septic etc but you can get a cool vintage home for a good cost per sq ft.
also look into land trusts- I don't know if they have them where you live, but they are a great boon to affordable housing alternatives.
OUr first home was a passive solar log house we built from scratch (not a kit)- a lot of WORK but a nice product. it took us 1 1/2 years to move in with my husband working almost full time on it. and it was a big unfinished barn when we moved in with plastic on the windows, no running water inside, or room devisions-we had an outhouse for years- ahhh those were the days.

Well blessings on you and yours. shelliem

 

Browse on the sites of banks and look for properties they are looking to dispose of. Should be a selection in New York State.

With The Fannie Mae My Community program you could qualify for a purchase
with no down-payment. There will be closing costs though. My Community
is a full income check program. Tax returns for business owners.

I've seen Bank-owned manufactured homes on a 1/2 acre lot for sale for as little as $5k. ( in Pa. ) These are forclosures and need work. some are in vey rural areas. Others can offer some financing even with no income check.

Between the family and the business, it may be too much to ask to build your own place, Sure is less romantic but derserves some thought.

Best wishes

 

My husband & I are saving to buy land in western Wisconsin so we can move our double-wide mobile home to it. We're looking at paying just under $50k for anything from 1/4 acre to 2 acres depending on location. And that doesn't count the relocation costs, or building a foundation for our home to sit on. Building a home from scratch, unfortunately, costs a TON! Even with recycled materials. I've looked into earthships, earthbag, strawbale, earth-berming, underground homes & papercrete - and all of them were depressingly expensive despite their claims to be cheap!
love,
mom

 

$50K for 1/4 acre! Wow! Have you ever thought of moving to a location where land is cheaper? Is this a possibility for you? Those are open questions to all. I know of places where $50K would get you 5 - 10+ acres and still have enough to build a decent house. Of coarse these are rural areas so that may not be something for you.

Having been researching "eco-homes" I think the factor that drives down the cost is having the time to do a lot if not all the work yourself and having a lot of the resources for building materials on your land so you don't have to buy them. Also building a house that is most suited for the land drives down cost. So either look for land that would be best for the style you want, if you are dead set on a certain style, or be flexible and work with what would be best for the land you get.

I think that in ideal conditions cob is probably the cheapest house you can build, in terms of money. I was not crazy about cob at first, but after researching it more I am really liking it and leaning towards it myself. But again it all depends on the land.

 

Walker, I would LOVE to relocate! DH & I want more than anything to move to Colorado someday. But... it's not terribly possible right now.

DH has been at the same job long enough that he would literally have to take a $5 cut in pay PER HOUR at any other job. He's in a job that technically requires a Bachelor's degree, because they see years of experience as just as good as a piece of paper. And our home - we live in a newish double-wide mobile home. It's beautiful, but to move it will cost $10K plus the cost of the foundation/basement. Selling newer mobiles around here is nearly impossible... one house up the road for me has been for sale literally for 3 years! So since we like our house so much we're committed to moving it.

But I WILL live in Colorado someday! We're thinking of building our future home out of earthbags. Love earthships, but neither of us have the strength to pound all those tires!
love,
mom

 

I think the best advise is to get your piece of ground and the rest will fall into place.

 

This is from a post I made in another thread on this sub-forum. It's about land around here:

Plus around here, the weather isn't aggressivly trying to kill you. Winters here are 3 mild months.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Just to get you going once you have your land, what about old shipping containers or an old bus to live in?

 

That sounds pretty sweet, poor_old_dad. You didn't even have to use your SS#! That is cool.

 

Yeah, and I paid it off in only six years, means I paid very little interest & got good, clear, registered at the court house title. All of which means it was (is) no scam.

I asked them how come they did things that way & others didn't. They said they didn't know about others, but their reason was that if folks don't pay, they keep your money, re-po the land, & then re-sell it with the improvements you had made. They were very easy to get along with, I got behind a couple times & they said as long as I didn't get 3 months behind they would wait. If you look you'll find lots of companies all over the country doing the same thing.

Mikul Realty is still doing the exact same thing - call them:205-665-7773

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

We did the same thing with our 10 acres. It sounds like pretty much the same deal. $21K price, $2K down and $196 a month with no pre-payment penalty, no credit check...nothing. They didn't even care if I was employed.