Can't stand: "its cool if you eat meat, its a personal choice"

I don't understand all the vegitarians who say that they don't care if people eat flesh or not, that its simply "a personal choice." For me the decision to not eat flesh and inflict suffering on non-human animals is a moral choice. I believe causing non-human animals to suffer is immoral. The vegies who say "oh its a personal decision" are going down the slippery slope of moral realitivism. Its like an abolitionist saying, "oh I don't mind if you have slaves, its a personal decision" No, its not! at some point things become a moral decision and there is a clear line between moral and immoral.

I often see veggies who take the personal choice side say, "oh I'm not like those other vegitarians who believe they are better because they don't eat meat" That is simply another way for them to say, "oh yeah, I think I'm better than the intollerant vegitarians because I judge people based on their diet." I just want to problemitize that for those of you who take the "personal choice" side.

I don't get upset with people for eating flesh, nor do I juge thier personality I just highly question their morality.

 

Wow, that was really eleoquently put! Im still deciding my exact position on this...i used to think and feel exactly like you, until i got so much criticism i actually had a deeper think...now im shifting a little, but i did enjoy your post, you make some great points

I just guess an aggressive stance doesnt do it...people need to see youre mature enough to accept their educated decision and respect it...but an UNeducated decision and a refusal to educate themselves...now THAT annoys me

 

I think it is a personal choice and it'd be wrong if we forced our beliefs onto other people. Morals are very subjective, so they differ from one person to another. Compairing eating flesh to slavery is a little far fetched. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Trust me, I agree with some of your points, but we can not parade around believing that our diet choices are better than others. Granted, vegetarians and vegans have less health issues, but it is up to the individual to educate themselves. A majority of the time we can educate and educate some people and their actions will not change. They just have different morals and we need to accept them.

 

I highly question your logic.

 

You see, the whole thing is morals are not supposed to be subjective and should not differ from one person to another. For the Nazis, killing Jews was completely in line with their beliefs, but was it moral? hell no! You can't say to a serial killer, "oh, its ok, you know your morals are just different than mine" and be cool with that. This is exactly the point a lot of people seem to be missing.

Philosophy attempts to seek out universal truths and a lot of philosophy has to do with moralty and ethics. I believe that morals are a universal truth that can be found through logic and reason. Maybe we just have a differnet defintion of moral.

 

"I believe causing non-human animals to suffer is immoral."
but causing humans to suffer is fine?? cute.

"I don't get upset with people for eating flesh, nor do I juge thier personality I just highly question their morality."
the thing you are missing is
everyone has a different view of what is 'moral'
morality is not, in anyway, a constant

I agree completely with Bumble
for the Nazis, killing Jews was moral, but to the majority, it is not
to international law, it is not

eating meat is completely legal
and supported by the majority of western civilization
so, it is something vegetarians will have to accept for the time being



how are morals, not supposed to be subjective?
who ever decided that?

 

well you got me there buddy. I get too caught up in the animals/non-human animals thing sometimes and become inconsistant.

The thing is morality is a constant. If you want to be able to say, for example, that murder is wrong morals cannot be a point of view. That is the slippery slope of moral realitivism I was talking about. If morals are a point of view, then nothing can qualify as moral/immoral and the term losses all significance.

So, you are advocating for morality by democracy? Interesting... So if the majority of people tourtured babies then somehow that would not be immoral?

Ok, it is something I accept for the time being. Again, slavery was legal and supported by the majority of western civilization, does that make it right?

Thousands of years of philosophy.

 

I kill animals for food. You do not. However, the computer you typed this very message on contains heavy metals that will poison some small corner of the earth for thousands of years. The power that's running it most likely game from hydro-electric dams in British Columbia - these dams are not particularly animal friendly. etc. So this very message is representative of your consumptive lifestyle which still indirectly kills many, many animals. I'll keep killing my animals for food, you do it for entertainment/convenience/whatever modern society offers you, and you can leave the hypocrisy of moral absolutes you can't follow yourself at the door.

 

these two arguments are pointless as they are based ont his one:

which philosophers/schools of philosophy?

and wanna know something cute?
ideology is subjective as well


morality is subjective
this can be proven easily
your Nazi example, to the Nazis, killing jews was ok
to you, it was not
therefore you have different moral stances
therefore morality is subjective

unfortunately, you may not get this, cause logic is subjective as well :tongue:

 

[font=&quot]Wow ok, I got someone all riled up apparently. I'm not gonna argue with you that modern society kills animals all the time. That is a standard omni attack on veg*ans that I don't want to get into again... I'm sure there are plenty of people here who may take up that up though.

I don't understand the hypocrisy of moral absolutes. I know what I'm talking about, I can follow it just fine, perhaps I have not explained it well enough for you but I still don't see the hypocrisy there. [/font]

 

I like vegetarians... but I don't like your type, TreePhiend.

Your type only pushes me to eat more meat... I can compare you to bible thumpers, who only push me into having more sex with Jesus.

 

my Mary blow-up doll suits me just fine

 

ok, so I guess if morals are subjective if someone murdered or raped you, you would have to say, "oh its cool, they just have a different idea of morality than me and who am I to say that what they did was wrong"

 

This is beyond idiotic.

 

I wish they would actually make those... or a Jesus blowup doll... I would get one and put it outside my house

 

make em and market em yerself.

 

I'm not so wise in the ways of science.

 

is someone eating you?
no?
didn't think so...

also, no, I still would be pissed, but I sitll understand that some people have no problem murdering, and that's why I'm not an asshole that fucks with people/stay away from people who seem insane

 

I want someone to eat me.

Armin Meiwes style

 

had to google the name, but I remember the story
that guy is a hero =D