'God'/'Devil' - 'Good'/'Evil' ???

I dunno if there are any linguists who have a better explanation, but the relationship seems to be pretty clear to me. God = The Good, Devil = The Evil.

If God just means 'that which is good', ie. that which has created us and that which sustains and preserves us, then God is nothing other than the living universe around us. Tell me that don't exist (reasoned arguments only please) and you might win a prize.

 

As a Christian I would not say that "God" is synonymous with "that which is good," thus I do not agree that all good things are God.

 

The universe is beyond 'good' and 'evil'.

 

That may be so, but the universe didn't invent the word 'God', people did. My point is that the word 'god' may have originally just have been used to refer to that which was percieved as good. ie. nature, the weather, the world etc, because that was what created and sustained the people. Then at some point, the original meaning of 'God' was forgotten and it started to be used as a name, like a person's name, rather than just being used as a word meaning 'that which is good'. It just seems like too much of a co-incidence that 'God' and 'Devil' are so similar to 'Good' and 'Evil' for there not to be a connection.

 

Perhaps the word god was used to designate a supposed creator being as per religion. It then became associated with 'good' because they couldn't face the idea that it might be bad too.
The universe isn't all good from the human perspective, there are many things which happen naturally and have a neagative effect on us, such as diseases, disasters and so on.

I think the devil was then necessary to these people's belief systems to account for bad things which didn't come from their good god.

The words god/good devil/evil do have the resonance you mention , but I think that it's pure chance, as this isn't true in other languages but is peculiar to english.

 

I'm not talking about other languages. I'm talking about English. It does not necessarily follow the equivalent words for God and Devil in another languages would be rooted in that language's words for Good and Evil aswell, even if it were correct that a link was present in English (which is in doubt). Languages do not all have a carbon-copy pattern of each other although there are obviously many similarities between them.

Can you really say whether god exists or not unless you can say what god actually is. Maybe the original meaning of the word 'God' has been distorted by time. There may have been a time when to ask the question 'do you believe in god?' would have been a nonsense. It would have been like saying "do you believe in good?'. 'Good' is not a thing or a person that can be proven to either exist or not exist. It is an abstract concept that humans feel. not something we see or touch.

Other languages words for God may be rooted in other words which are felt to describe some characteristic of the creative power, eg.

1. ‘El’: In the group of Semitic languages, the most common word for Deity is El (‘el’), represented by the Babylonian ilu and the Arabic ‘Allah’. It is found throughout the Old Testament, but more often in Job and Psalms than in all the other books. It occurs seldom in the historical books, and not at all in Leviticus. The same variety of derivations is attributed to it as to ELOHIM, most probable of which is the Hebrew root word ‘ul’, meaning, “to be strong.” (The Origin of the English Word for God, Craig Bluemel)

It seems some others believe that 'God' in English, may have originated from descriptive terms. eg,

"GOD - The English word God is identical with the Anglo-Saxon word for “good,” and therefore it is believed that the name God refers to the divine goodness. (See Oehler's Theol. of Old Test.; Strong's and Young's concordances.)" (From New Unger's Bible Dictionary).

Whether or not 'God' originated from 'good' is uncertain. But my point is that we are asking the wrong question, "does God exist?". Of course 'God' exists. Every human culture since the dawn of time has sensed 'God'. What you think of as 'God' might not exist, but 'God' as a phenomenon obviously does exist. The real question is, 'What is God?', 'What does it mean?'. I think the linguistic roots of the words for 'God' give us clues. I think that Islam has 100, or so different names for God.

 

I wasn't saying god exists or not.

I don't think it's obvious that god does exist as you say. Not all cultures believe in god. Buddhism and Taoism for instance don't have a concept of god.

The origin of the word isn't really that relevant - it isn't generally taken as a synonym for 'good'.

 

I usually tell people that I don-t believe in God but in good

 

'I don't think it's obvious that god does exist as you say.'

sorry, I guess I did'nt explain myself well. I mean that there is an 'idea' of God that exists, but that the popular idea of god has come about through misunderstood metaphors. ie. that god is a man, due to 'Father' symbolism and the like, which may just have been intended to describe a percieved relationship between creature and creator.

'The origin of the word isn't really that relevant - it isn't generally taken as a synonym for 'good'.'

That's exactly what I'm saying! That 'God' ISN'T understood, simply to mean 'good', because it has taken on other connotations that have obscured the original meaning. Good point about Buddhists. They don't believe in God, but they believe in reality. 'Good' could be used to refer to reality. Reality might be thought to be 'good' because it produced us and it sustains us. I am suggesting that 'good' became ritualised and dogmatized through religion,it came to be used and thought of as a name and it's original meaning became lost.

I get the feeling that this isn't getting us anywhere. Can you tell me if you believe in God?

 

I believe in what I'd prefer to call higher intelligences.


I think you are onto something with the idea that God got turned into a male - most of the cultures which existed prior to Zarathustra were centered on the Great Mother. As civilization got going with it's ruling kings, the idea of god got changed to reflect the culture.

Also the identification of god with the moral principle of good was probably a later thing. It is interesting to note that in Hinduism, god is said to be above good and evil.
Also, if you ever read 'Demian' by Herman Hesse, there is talk of a form of god known as Abraxas, who is both good and evil at the same time.

In terms of popular religion like christianity and islam, you are quite right that god has become mainly a moral entity.

Back to Zarathustra - it seems he was the one who first claimed there are two warring cosmic powers - god, called by him Ahura Mazda, and the devil, called Ahriman. The influence of Zarathutra on christianity is probably very underated.

 

And Nietzsches Zarathustra eclipses the historical figure in wisdom.

 

You're both very vague about what you believe. 'Higher intelligences' and 'Infinity' don't really tell me anything much. I'm bored of this now. Have a nice life

 

What I believe can't be summed up in a word, much less two!

Forget about boredom! Don't you yourself entertain yourself in everything, and nothing?


Something's happening! lol

 

Good Bye is a shortened form for God be with ye, so it is plausible there is more than just chance the two are so alike. Also, devil and evil are similar in form and closely tied in definition, so they could very easily be linked as well. I have read that the word devil comes from diva, an old word for angel, the devil being a fallen angel.

I have heard theories that eleven is referring to hell/heaven, but that is much more of a stretch to accept than your two words.
Hu and Lu are supposed to be roots which link many words, sorry I don't have the information handy, but it is worth looking up.

 

Good and Evil are things that were born with human emotion and will die with human emotion. The universe has absolutely nothing to do with good and evil. The universe is. That's it. It is neither good nor evil, it just is.

 

yes infact god is another word for good
goodbye is a shortened version of "god be with you" in old English

also Devil is from yfel (ancient english) meaning something bad or wrong
d' yfel is of yfel meaning something born of badness

http://www.etymonline.com

good (adj.) O.E. god (with a long "o") "having the right or desirable quality," from P.Gmc. *gothaz (cf. O.N. goðr, Du. goed, Ger. gut, Goth. goþs), originally "fit, adequate, belonging together," from PIE base *ghedh- "to unite, be associated, suitable" (cf. O.C.S. godu "pleasing time," Rus. godnyi "fit, suitable," O.E. gædrian "to gather, to take up together"). Irregular comparatives (better, best) reflect a widespread pattern, cf. L. bonus, melior, optimus. First record of good day is from c.1205. Goods "property" first recorded c.1280, but singular in the same sense was in O.E. The good neighbours is Scot. euphemism for "the fairies" (1588). Good-for-nothing is from 1711; good-looking is from 1780; good-natured first recorded 1577. Good sport is from 1917; good to go is attested from 1989.
evil O.E. yfel (Kentish evel) "bad, vicious," from P.Gmc. *ubilaz (cf. O.Saxon ubil, Goth. ubils), from PIE *upelo-, giving the word an original sense of "uppity, overreaching bounds" which slowly worsened. "In OE., as in all the other early Teut. langs., exc. Scandinavian, this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective (adj.), or harm, crime, misfortune, disease. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was in O.E., but did not become the main sense until 18c. Evil eye (L. oculus malus) was O.E. eage yfel.

 

I just don't see the point of what you're saying is. There are MANY names for God, you've mentiond "EL," of which some varities may be: elohim and eloah, but there are others like "Yahweh" which are rooted in existence. And the meanings of these words may differ from culture to culture and context to context. Which culture dictates the correct meaning of a word, and in turn, the correct expression of 'what' God is? I guess I'm just not seeing what you're getting at.

 

Well ... well what an intresting convo we have going here.

before i comment I will need clarification...

"As a Christian I would not say that "God" is synonymous with "that which is good," thus I do not agree that all good things are God."

Jatom: I agree, but would you agree with the following statement: All that is God = HAPPY, all that is not of God (yes, the anti-god, anti-chirst, satan etc... also applies here) = UNHAPPY.