VW's

Originally it is, Demos kratos (peoples power). Its definiton differs a lot (Pinochet might have thought he was quite democratic).
But in essence I think democracy is (should be) the majority preserving the rights of the minority.

It has a fulcrum of "modus vivendi"; the state of compomise.

Why would the small group make your life harder to live? If you're talking for the American democracy, I dont think you people got much democracy out there man (Albeit it is vehemently "advertised" so). In America you're living the democracy of the corporation man, I dont see anything for the poor or the starving.

 

I agree with you, and so did the founding fathers of this country. Obvioulsy Thomas Jefferson did! My only disagreement is that the majority must act in self preservation while simultaneously protecting the minority. This is where a lot of disargreements happen.

I feel as though I have a certian level of Democracy here. I have sent several letters to my Representitives and they have written me back either acknowledging my ideals or explaining where they disagree. I am fully allowed to vote for which ever individual I feel suits my beliefs the best. I can also form my own lobby, as can businesses. The majority here is often represented and thier will is often imposed. Usually the will of the populous coincides with the profit mongering of corporations. Politicians are easily influenced by public outcry and corporate money; allowing policy to change to suit both.

Issues that do not have a financial windfall are usually the issues that are battled out in the State/Federal/Supreme Court. Which is in no way Democratic (unelected judges setting ultimate, unchanging, presidence). Oddly that is where some of our (the peoples) greatest achievements in policy making happen.

At any given time there are several small interest groups opposing what I believe. Opposed to just casting a vote I must do a much longer list of things to get my view point out. The more money I have to feed this problem the smaller the problem gets.

The poverty problems in this country are massively overblown. First and foremost; we give every child a free eductation. The #1 determination of your social status in life is your education level. The government will assist people, the less you make the more you get, in earning a higher education as well. Second; There are several programs that ensure that the poor do not starve. From Food Stamp to Homeless Shelters the poor can readily take advantage of what is at their disposal. Americans are know for their bleeding-hearts when it comes giving. Third; there are more charities here than anywhere else. Fourth; Opportunity in America is abundant. This nation has more 1st generation fortunes that any other country. You can start a business, work for a business, or do niether. If your status in this country is low it is of your own choosing.

A great example is Hurricane Charlie relief. The majority of the people that recieve that relief are poor, recently poor-er, and could not possibly rebuild. The government steps in and gives them $2/billion. Niether the tax payer nor the government has any reservations about doing this.

We also have no reservations about giving some of our wealth to the world. Foriegn Aid is pushing $9/billion with charities matching or exceeding some government programs (exp.; the Gates Foundation gave $400/million to foriegn disease control in one year). Aids Relief, due to the Bush Adminstration (good thing), has reached $25/billion. Oddly the most valuable commodity we Americans have to offer the poor is not our money, but our consumeristic ways. If the Americans didn't consume at the astonomical rate that they do then the poor would be without jobs. If nobody is buying bread, then nobody is making bread.


I apologize for the long post, its a fairly long subject though. I will be back later.

 

I wasn't saying anything about anybody following trends or for that matter about cars, really. You put forth a compendious hyperbolic dictum implying that somehow if you drive a VW now you are responsible for the holocaust. I was merely replying that it makes as much sense as saying that we are personally responsible for the atrocities of the Caucasians upon the Native People earlier in our history.

In answer to your question I live in the US. What's it to ya?

 

I wasn't saying "if you drive a VW you are responsible for the halocaust". I did say that hippies generally have such strong convictions that they wouldn't drive a VW based on where it came from. Hippies (to me) are a culture based on going against the norm in the name of moral and ethical conviction. Denouncing things that are embraced by the "in crowd". Only to find that hippies will sell their culture out to stay current with a trend.


You're like the 10th person that has tried to change what I'm saying. Read above. Then respond.

Hippy Hunter

 

Your last missive states.....

Since you think I changed what you are saying, let's take a look at the history of our exchanges, shall we?

The original scewed logic that caused my ire to perk up to the point I felt I wanted to say something was....

The same night I read the following where maes so correctly said.

You replied...

At this point I wrote my response

According to your logic we should boycott ourselves

[/QUOTE= Snowdancer]Or have forgotten about the large scale genocide, mass internment, con artist land bargaining & wholesale robbery that the US government performed upon the native people of this land? Thousands of people were killed by your government up until the turn of the last century. This all took place before Hitler.[/QUOTE]

At this point you so maturely made these two replies....

 

hey, VW's being made by the Nazi's or not. I've not seen many Nazi's travelling in their VW, living in their VW, spraying painting their VW all colourfully and with peace signs and all sorts on... ... ...I just can't imagine it.
Whether they created them or not, they are not creating them now. Unless you are holding grudge against Germany. Perhaps it is a hippys way of saying they are forgiven. Or just a conveniant way to travel.

It's like saying why are you using this what is made from china where a child slave from an orphanage could have made it and got beaten for everytime they make a mistake.

Or why are you eating that chocolate do you not know that they get paid unfairly... or not even at all.

but hell, people still do it don't they! we never know where stuff comes from, yet we still use it. Otherwise we would be suspicious of Everything, till we knew for certain where it came from... and Im not so sure people wouldnt still use them..

 

You have already mentioned the "key" elements of democracy (!). As Adorno and Habermas say, the society is being designed as less complaining consumers.

Although I bet you just mistyped the word EDUCATION, it just serves so good to my case as an irony, I had to underline it.

But to debate seriously; free education to children is given even in Zambia! In an era of ultimate specialization, "we give free high school education" is all but funny.

"Give a man fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him for a life time" says a Chinese proverb.

Maybe it's bcuz the gap between the rich and the poor is the greatest in the USA among the developped countries!

Maybe that's why the US has the highest crime rate among the OECD countries, not to mention homicide cases and the use of fire arms. Dont you think it's an indicator of the discontent among the society? Or do you think too much welfare leads to higher crime rates as seen in Luxemburg?(!)
-massive sarcasm-

I remember seeing the photo somewhere else at the time but just googled to make sure you also see it :
"Looters will be killed"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1191579/posts


To check out where the rest of the budget is being spent, herez a link:http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/run/oreo

(Thanks to the HippyHaHaGirl for providing the forums with the link)

Cheers!

 

I don't think the crime rate reflect discontent in society or in the country. Everyone I doesn't want to leave the US, ever (I even know people who don't want to vacation outside the US). Our crime rate has been dropping. Most of our crime is related to gangs, drugs, or poverty. Although there is very little poverty in the US (don't cite that new study, I've read it). Our poverty line isn't the same as it is in India. Thats one thing that makes America great, our plumbers can vacation in Mexico, our carpenters can own two cars (or three or four). Our "poor" are not as poor as the rest of the world poor. If I'm not mistaken the poverty line is $14K, right? Although you could raise children on that budget, you probably don't want to. But if you'd like to there are lots of programs that will help you do so. My views on this issue: If you're poor then theres a reason why(got pregnant, dropped out, addicted to drugs, alcoholic [same as last] ect.). Nobody is just poor, especially not in this country. If you get up every day and make the effort you will eventually move up. When I think of this subject I rembemer Las Vegas. Thousand upon thousands of people, all somewhere between high-middle and lower class SPENDING HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY!!!! Then I think of their kid who will have to struggle to pay for their own education.

I like you pointed out my spelling error but ignored the rest of the post. Most people would have no idea what my post meant, especially those with out an education.
In regards to your link: What the hell does "Ben" know about the budget. I don't want to feed every starving kid in the world, and who is he to tell me how to spend my money. When he was talking about education He only cited the Federal budget. States, generally, use property tax or sales tax to fund schools; so he isn't giving you the whole picture. You know, money isn't hte only solution to education! We could give the schools $1 trillion and still not every kid would graduate. The Defense budget isn't all spent on evil guns. NASA is funded out of that (yes the people who gave us velcro), as is the National Guard (they're used to help people in disaster areas. I've seen them called out here 4 times in 5 years) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3841511 - that budget paid for this (also every other military assistance to every country that requests it) http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/19990823.html - we could have let those people die (Do you know how much it would cost to do that?) http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/9811/04/mitch.04/ - more help we shouldn't have give (it is never appreciated very long). The accurate measure of defense spending wouldn't be the almighty dollar amount, it is measured as a percentage of GDP. The US spends 3.9% of its GDP on the military (which makes us 30th in the world). North Korea and France for example spend 22.9% and 2.6%, respectively. As we all know a dollar in North Korea will go a lot further than it will here. Same goes for Iraq, the $2 billion they spend can buy much more man power because they only pay their soldiers $55 dollars a month. Of course this has all changed. In the United States we pay our entry level soldiers (E-2) $1,337/mo, on top of which they pile the GI Bill ($60,00 for school), enlistment bonus(can be over $10k), and a myriad of other incentives. So effectively half of all military spending goes toward supporting the dwindling numbers of troops that need to be trained a ready. Then the other half goes to supporting programs that you reap the benefits of every single day. Like advances in aircraft technology, critical early computer research, medical advances, quantum leaps in the space program, the Interstate road system* **(**now Interstates are paid from by DOT but were built for the military. *not international readers), and other discoveries that the private sector couldn?t possibly find the funding to research. For example, GPS (Global Positioning Satellite), the profits from such and endeavor would have been so meager that what ever company tried to bring this to market would have gone broke in the research phase (not to mention the astronomical cost associated with getting 24 satellites into space, then maintaining them[which entails launching new satellites]). This service if free, excluding the cost of a reciever, to everyone in the entire world. Don't forget about our contribution to the U.N. peace keeping forces (yes, it takes a military to make peace)! Dont forget about the military engineers who have disigned everything from NORAD to a more portable toothbrush.

Corporations, as we all know, would rather just get us to spend our money with nothing in return. Atleast the government is a little better than that.

 

I'm just curious as to what vehicle Hippy Hunter actually drives.

 

He drives a FV

(FV: Father's Vehicle)

 

Well, what else?

You are comparing the richest country in the world with India, the second most populous country on earth (5 times more ppl live in India than in the US). It's like heavy weight vs. feather weight. Why dont you compare it with Finland and Germany? Why do you think the crime

It's true that your carpenters travel the world, I met one of them last year in Turkey (seriously he said he was a carpenter). But that's normal for so does every G7 country's carpenters and plumbers.

In deed, few can stand against human will...But you might want to read how farmers and livestock raisers are being enslaved by the corps, such as the McDonalds, Kentucky Friend Chicken and etc. Just because the cartel laws have been modified in TX in favor of the corps.

Well, he's a citizen like you, saying just the same thing for Bush.

It's not about graduating, it's about giving the kids, be it rich or poor, equal chances to a free higher education. If a decent family kid, whose parents have spent their money in Las Vegas wants to go to a college in order to stay out of drugs, gangs and etc. he, most probably would have to do a military service to earn the money req. for college.

"Interstate" is created by Hitler and is originally known as the "Autobahn",also created for the military. What we are saying is, the
technological that advances YOU have been reaping is the VolksWagen.

And about the disaster relief aids the U.S. deliver, thanks a lot, many lives have been saved. We also sent doctors and rescue teams (AKUT) to Iran and I worked as a volunteer (in Izmit).

True...thats why sacked people say more government, less corporates.

 

Dude, i dont even own a VW, if i wanted to then i probably would own one, instead of criticizing us, y dont u do something uve probably never done before, be nice, spread the peace, peace man !!

 

I believe I've written it somewhere before....

 

Maes: So reasonably America could be compared to the United Kingdom? After all our country is roughly based off thiers. Heres some numbers for ya'. America has 12% of its population living below the poverty line, United Kingdom has 17%. So, no, we aren't suffering like every other G7 (which I believe is now the G8) country. Maybe Russia would be more fitting, they are at 25% below poverty.

Heres a great quote from statistics.gov.uk, "However, crimes involving firearms rose by 35 per cent in 2001/02 and have doubled since 1997/98. Robbery accounted for over half of recorded crimes involving firearms in 2001/02" - kinda amazing for a country that banned firearms! (Australia is worse) Comparitively Americas gun crime rate has been dropping.

Contrary to popular belief, Americas crime rates are not higher than those in Europe. http://www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/000220.html Interpol recently changed who can access these stats. Its Ok, I've written them a letter (ha). So what are the rates in Turkey? I'm sure they must be lower than ours. Speaking of Turkey, I've always wanted to go there. Anywhere in particular that I should see?

Some experts say that violent crimes would drop dramatically if we would just legalize some drugs, I believe them. The majority of crimes in this country are not caused because we are unhappy with our country, they happen because people are greedy.
I don't believe our governments role is to provide equal opportunitys to attend higher education. I believe their role is to provide equal elementary, middle, and high school education. If someone chooses to attend college then thats fine. I also believe that the government should assist those who wish to attend college. As we do; Pell Grants (a free lump sum with a max of $4,050/yr) are funded at $12bil/yr by the US gov. On top of that there are unsubsidized loans, scholarships, tax deductions all over the place, and most importantly Federal and State funding for colleges. So, you don't neccisarily need to join the military to pay for school.

Our Interstate was created to fight Hitler. He may have built a large road but he didn't build our Interstates. Trying to use that against my arguement is like saying that Hitler invented all jet engines.

I was simply using those as an example, there have been thousands of aid missions undertaken by the US. The most ironic thing I've ever seen in my entire life: After 9/11 the news was showing a video of Afghanys celebrating (and they got theirs) the destruction. Right next to one of the protestors there was a large sack of food (corn, rice, flour, ect) with a large American flag printed on it. I have never seen Americans so outraged by anything except those celebrations. The anger is still here, just no so obvious.

Thats awsome that you worked as a volunteer!!

 

get it right it wasnt designed by hitler!!!! it was designed by porsche, and in ww2 it wasnt volkswagen it was the kdf volkswagenwerks, vww machines were kubelwagens and schwimmwagens which could hardly be a cause of thousands of deaths its the member of the schutzstaffel driving the thing please be less ignorant about my passion i love things i would die before seeing my lovely lightening bug be crushed and raped of it parts and sold for scrap i love my bug! i lost my virginity in my bug! i got stoned in my bug i got drunk in my bug i have snuggled with people in my bug i have snuggled with my bug i have made it purrr smoothly and bring much joy to my heart.

 

A little off the subject, but you must be either a midget or a contortionist!

 

im not actualy 6'2" so it was rather crammed but hey it was the moment we had no other place at the time, but hey it makes for some interesting memories!

 

Actually Hitler drew the original design of the VW bug on a nampkin, while he was sitting in a restaraunt in Munich. He then passed the design to his engineers and demanded that a "volkswagen" or "peoples car". I've seen a picture of a Brown Shirt standing infront, of what appears to be, a VW Beetle.

 

i do beleive i have seen that photograph as well, but still how can you say thousands of deaths were because of volkswagens, if you seen (or rode) a kubelwagen od schwimmwagen you should know that its not really all that much of a killing machine. thos schwimmwagens are fun to ride in man, i want one for myself, i would paint it dark grey with a ww2 german style fall camo paint job on top of it with 1st SS markings...

 

Too bad they are so expensive, last shwimmer I saw locally went for a little over $50,000. Thats insane.