Would the Buddhist belief in God or the eternal spirit be equivalent to the Hindu view of OM and completeness when reunited with God? I have been studying deeper into different forms of Buddhism and I find many mixed views of God and the eternal...some say they do not believe in God which is strange becuase they believe in a spiritually infinite and others refer to Nirvana as reaching God forever. I also know that sometimes words can confuse things from the beginning, so with that in mind is the actual realization or reality of Nirvana like that of Heaven or Moksha? The complete oneness of what we call Brahaman or God that connects to the Atman or soul within? Ben.
Think of Buddhism as Hinduism without most of the mythology. It's the philosophy laid bare; it makes sense, because the Buddha came out of a Hindu society and wasn't trying to create a new religion. I'd agree that Nirvana is equivalant to Moksha or Heaven, in the Hindu sense of being released from the cycle of rebirth into lives filled with desire and thus pain and suffering. It's a true enlightenment where you lose your "ego" and all it's issues, and realize you are already one with God/Brahman/The Ultimate Ground of Existance. You're right, the problem is talking about it in words is difficult. You get stuck on the words (symbols) and miss their meaning, or misinterpret it. Also making things difficult is the fact that I've never experienced it and only know about it through reading about it, making it hard to speak of :-\
First of all if you study Buddhism from books, teachers or sources like that, all you'll get is confusion. A being must experience Nibbana in order to understand it. No one can tell you what Buddhist god, consciousness, oness is, because its beyond speech. "Everything and nothing" .. can this mean anything to a being who has not experienced it? And the most important thing, there is no god in buddhism (I'm talking about the western understanding of god). But there is a great unity and ballance in the pure consciousness and everything is this consciousness. You can call this pure consciousness, god. But this god does not think, does not judge, does not have a personality to say this is sin or else. And Nibbana is the point of unity with this consciousness. And is beyond words. But I can tell you this, those who are talking about a Buddhist god is saying exactly the same thing with those who say there is not a god in Buddhism. Its there but it isnt there. One of the jokes of ying yang ... And by the way TrippinBTM's words on Hinduism is correct. Cloudminerva: "they do not believe in God which is strange becuase they believe in a spiritually infinite and others refer to Nirvana as reaching God forever" The understanding and meaning of "god" in western culture is completely different from the east. This is a big problem when trying to explain Budhism to a westerner. Maybe if you refer to "god" with another word and try to understand it with this new "word" it will be easier.
Thanks. Yeah, I guess that I still have some of those old western conceptions that I haven't broken free from. I have studied and lived by a lot of Hindu philosophy for the past couple years and the sacred books of the Hindus captivated me and really gave light to spritual truth to me and I have also seen many truths in Buddhism, just God's concept is what had me a bit lost in Buddhism...it seemed different from Hinduism as well as the Western concept of God, but I believe that past all words they show unity. I just really wanted to understand the concepts... I guess that you can only do so much study before you just have to feel, because words just can't carry the completeness of what anything really is... this has been true for me once again! (notice my quote ). But anyways, thanks again. Ben.
I'm a little tired so this may not come out right but..... Compare Buddhism to Vendanta, which is what Hinduism is based on. They are the same thing...basically. There is no God in Buddaville because the concept of God requires a seperation from everything else. God is here; everything else overthere. Look for the Middle Way.
buddha did not deny the existence of god (or gods)... he merely stated that, in the end, they will not be able to solve the final problem for you... (and even the gods themselves seem to be subject to ther laws of karma, and tied to the wheel of death and rebirth, as are we all)... & his last words to his disciples: therefore be ye lamps unto yourselves, and work out your own salvation with diligence
Sid said that it is a mistake you believe anything is caused by God, Chance or Fate. He didn't, as grnm23 points out, deny God or Gods exist, just they are not worth bothering with. They are conditioned and therefore impermanent and unsatisfactory. If you think that God and Nirvana are the same then yes god is a definely an important part of Buddhism. Best call it Nirvana to avoid confusion. By the way, according to Buddhist teaching there is no such thing as the soul. In fact, it is definitatly a mistake to think of Buddhism as Hinduism just without the Mythology or anything similar. Read a text that compares the two. The difference suddenly seems huge. Blessings Sebbi
"Nihrvana" is the name of the Ultimate goal of all who believe in the one. He has MANY names. WE gave them to the One. God, Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, the list continues. What matters is that you believe! And LOVE mankind. Thus is MY belief.
Basically through meditation practice which unconditions the mind. The minds unconditioned or unbounded state itself is the state of nirvana. Consider that through most of life one places the mind on limited and limiting objects. In samadhi one places the basic mind on the basic mind free of object and thereby finds an objectless or unbounded mind. This is the state of nirvana. To blend that meditational experience into all aspects of life is the path and the way to cessation of the bondage of samsara or the wheel of life and rebirth. Obviously it's not a stupid question, or else Buddha wouldn't have bothered laying out a path and goal. More specifically one searches for a good teacher and practices. Nirvana like anything takes work.
I have heard Khenpos talk of the Buddhist void and call it Vishnu and other more abstracted and transcendent names of God. But as said above, Buddha said that God, and the Gods are also relativistic beings and so to be completely free of all relative tinge one should follow the way of the Tathagata. God, and the Gods lie within, they look through our eyes and hear through our ears. But we still must break free of the bondage of our limited minds, and the way to do that is through nirvana. Nirvana is a certain knowledge from years of meditation and teachings of masters. At that point one is free of clinging to relativistic notions of things even Godly and Godlike notions. One is also free of notions of sin and cleanliness and all other dualities. There is after all only one thing and one thing only and that is awareness. Where it isn't nothing is. This is at once all things and only one thing free of all definitions or rather, utilizing all of the entire life as its definition. One thing in all things. Know that one thing to be your own self. God can also coexist in this space.
I find it interesting, the concept of God. How many folks who believe in God ( as apposed to god or gods -- little "g" ) believes that God is everywhere and in all things, yet look outside of themselves for God as if they were not a part of "all things". Ask most "believers in God" where their minds go, or where they direct their mind when they pray to God, and you will always get the response of "toward heaven" or "up there" and point up to the sky. When asked where heaven is when they reply "toward heaven", they will always point up to the sky. So, I ask, if God is in all things and everywhere then isn't he inside you also? If he is in all things, does that include the atoms that make up your body? And if he is in the atoms that make your body, then doesn't that really make you God, since that is all you are anyway is an aggregate of atoms. To these folk who find it necessary to preach to me about their religion and their God, I say to them ... do you want to see God? Do you? Go home and look in a mirror. If all you see is your self then that is all your mind is full of ... your own desires, lusts, greed, hatred, attachments. You're so caught up in your own self that you can't even see God in one little aspect of what you call his creation, so you need to look outside your self for God and you still only look in one place that is so far removed from your self ... the sky. Meagain is right ... there is no God in Buddhaville ... because all there is is us, and this isn't but conventionally true. Ultimately there's emptiness as nothing exists inherently of itself, but through mutual dependence on causes and conditions. I did not say we are Nothing ... as Nothing is something. More later ... I am typing this from work and I do need to get going doing the work thing ... With loving-kindness and compassion, Darrell
I believe in God within and without. Inside and everywhere else. I believe in the desire of the creator and the half that was to be filled. I belief that we are the other half. I don't believe that we are entirely God because we are not everything. All co-exists so we are pieces of a gigantic whole. I belief in Atman and Brahman. Our soul is one drop of the ocean and God is the rest of the ocean and all of this unites with the rivers, streams, and lakes. We have to realize God and oneness ourselves though, to break free from the wheel of dharma. It is all a means of realization in the material world. To me there is a God in the Buddhist belief. Words are limiting, but what we call God is still there. We still reach the same thing. Whether we call it Nirvana, Heaven, Moksha, Oneness, God, supreme consciousness, the eternal self. We become free of the bondage. That is my belief. Ben.
And you know, Ben, that's quite alright. You'll not get any grief from me for what you choose to believe. As one very wise lady on these forums is quite fond of saying ... you are the choices you make. Choices are never written in stone and can be changed with another choice. For you, God is ... for me, there is no God ... I'm not condemning you for what you choose or choose not to believe ... With loving-kindness and compassion, Darrell
Buddhists not only believe god, they dance with god... And god, having manifested as this or that, maybe the Green Tara, maybe the Buddha, maybe this or that Bodhisattva, whatever, it whispers sweet love songs in the yearning ears of the meditator! it's still that same energy, the unifed field of quatum subatomic energy that is supreme consciousness... that self, or lack of self, that always changing, always flowing, super intelligence. emptiness... deeper, beyond the beyond, deeper still! Sure we have different ways of expressing it, or understanding it or communicating it... But where we are aware, of that which HAS NO NAME, we know, we are IT, BEING. And what to call it this that or the other thing... doesn't matter... a realized being that is a buddhist and a realized being that is a yogi and a realized being that is a mystic within the catholic tradition will all dance the same dance! The buddhists can't fool you for they just give "God" another name. So whenever a buddhist says, "Oh, there is no god, I am a buddhist, and we don't believe in that." Just laugh and share some love, because don't be fooled, they are talking about what we SEE AS GOD, they just use different concepts and ways of communicatable that which cannot be communicated it words... You see the real communication, is in your love, is in your awareness, not the words you describe your awareness with. Once you get deep enough in the heart of hearts, yogi, hindu, sufi, buddhist... we're all a mystic making sweet love to that which cannot be explained in concepts and words! And all we can do is shine that love on every being, shine that compassion! Wheeeeeeeeeeee! Don't let em fool you, we're all on the same team!
Thanks for that post, dude. That was beautiful! That is definitely how I feel. Terminology limits us. Anything said in one language is said differently in another, but what we aim for/ask/seek is the same. Ben.
God is love. Love is what binds us, the energy of the universe, within everything. Totality is God. The infinite. So it would seem we are a part of this love, this totality, the infinite. It would seem we are a part of God. Each a swirl of water in an infinite ocean.
