A very old and basic ethical question...

our intentions come first of course, but only as long as we don't expect them to do the work of rigourously honestly and objectivitly doing our thinking for us.

there is one slight problem though, and that is the only one who can ever really know our intentions, is ourself.

whereas our actions and the consiquences of our actions, are observable to all.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Themnax

Exactly..

And thus, our intentions, become real by our actions. Are judged
And often, by the eye of reason.
[judgement by the eye of desire is of no meaning.]

That eye has no sympathy or feeling. That is it's purpose.
That is what makes us rational beings

So many want to be called rational beings...but never apply reason.

Occam

 

If you believe that the physical world is all there is then consequences are by far the most important part. If you subscribe to a more dualistic philosophy then I think the intention aspect is more important spiritually as lets face it, sometimes even your best plans will go tits up.

 

Apparently many Americans think that intentions are of no value what so ever. Atleast we seem to sue a lot of people and corporations who may have wonderful intentions when the "on the ground results" don't suit us.

I love Modern American "ethics"......

 

Ok suppose you intend to allieviate the suffering of some starving people, and that is counted as a moral act. It is only moral if you achieve that goal.
Suppose all you end up doing is lining the pockets of corrupt politicians, you may be roped into a scandal and be seen as corrupt even though your intentions were good.
Without intentions there cannot be moral consequences, but whether good intention is a necessary or sufficient condition for a moral outcome is a different thing.
You could not be judged moral if you were a drug dealer who was going to shoot someone dead because they owed you money for a rock of crack, not even if in attempting to shoot them you missed and burst the tyre of a car that was being used as a gettaway in a robbery. People may praise you for being moral and helping the police catch a robber, but surely not if they knew your original intention. Similarly, if you shot the gun at the tyre of a gettaway car but missed and killed a innocent bystander, you would most likely not recieve moral acclaim for your attempt to do good. That is to say, on the face of it consequence is everything, but I dont think it is.
It would seem that intentions only count if you had a good intention and then achieved the goal you aimed for.
It is not difficult therefore to see the problem that would be encountered in saying that consequences are important - whether a consequence is important will rest upon whether youre intention was good

 

The result of our actions.

 

Occam wrote most of what I wanted to, so all that is left is this: It is more important to the individual what his/her intent was, but the result is what is more important to the affected party. As Occam said, try your best, that is all you can do. If you intended good, but bad resulted, all you can do is try to fix it as best you can and take responsibility for your actions.

 

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Clearly the consequences and results are more important than your intentions, because if something was a result...it went well, but if you're shooting at a 1:20 chance of doing something good, and fuck up and ruin a dozen peoples lives, you're much worse off than you started.

 

the consequences to our actions show us whether or not our intentions where correct.

 

I think both are of equal importance, but while intentions don't have the possibility of causing harm or benefit to others, actions do. Therefore, we must be vigilant to only take action that will not cause undue harm to others.

 

As long as your heart is in the right place whatever it takes. If people want help. But make sure that it's what they want.

But please people - Wait for people/children to figure things out on their own.

Progress should not be forced. Ever. It just has to grow and mature as the world grows and matures.

 

There never are any consequences. The idea of consequence is used to control people to make them afraid to take action

 

"Sorry man, I thought it'd be nice to have ur house warm when you came home, I didn't know your cat would knock down 1 of the candles and burn down ur house, my bad"

 

lifelovefun said it all........end of story.

 

hint - if they want help they will ask for it!

giving help to someone who does not want it is a form of abuse.

 

An intention is a thought containing a purpose; aimed towards a goal that one is seeking to accomplish. Subsequently, an action is required to bring about the goal that is thought about being sought. Whether one is successful or unsuccessful depends upon whether or not the desired result was brought about. And, it follows that part of the result - good or bad - will also have a
consequence - it is unavoidable.

So, intentions and consequences kind of go hand in hand, because every intention that turns into an action that is carried out will unavoidably have a result - as well as a consequence - whether it be good or bad.

It's important to understand that there are two levels of intentions: one that turns into an action that is carried out; and one that does not turn into an action but simply remains a thought in someone's mind. There are consequences - good or bad - to both levels of intentions. The intention that turns into an action that is successful in accomplishing the desired goal, theoretically results in good consequences (providing the goal was good and not evil). The intention that goes nowhere and remains as only a thought in someone's mind can have consequences as well; undoubtedly. Example: "I had intended to check the water & oil levels in my automobile for the last five months because the idiot lights in my dash don't work, but I didn't check the levels. Today I seized the engine because it had no water or oil in it."
The thought containing the intention did not turn into an action here - it simply remained as only a thought to do something in this person's mind. The consequence for taking no action was the loss of the use of their car.
Moral of the Story: You don't have to take an action to result in a consequence.

So, I am hard-pressed to say what is most important: an intention or a consequence; for no one can be certain at the outset of accomplishing a goal whether or not they will be successful at it, because one can never know for certain what they might encounter along the way. I guess I go with the mindset of 'giving it all you've got' while you're doing the right thing for the right reason; keep your eye on the mark and don't lose sight of where you're going; and then you've got the best chance of accomplishing whatever it is you set out to do. I don't think anyone should ever not try to accomplish something simply because they might not do so - we all have to go at it with the best we've got.

Sincere Regards, Michaela
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"They will never make a perfect heart until they
make one that can't be broken."
The Wizard, "The Wizard of Oz"
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I think good intentions are important, but also to carry out those actions as were intended and not the opposite. I've met to many people who take refuge behind their intentions and the "I didnt mean to", and when you see this is a habit, you gotta stop and wonder: does this person really means well?
I personally believe that all it takes to act according to one's intentions is for them to be really honest, keeping them in mind and just taking the moment to think if the action you are gonna take goes against your purpose, and if it does, then why do it?
The more honest we are with ourselves and the people around us, the better synchronized our intentions and actions will be.

 

Autentique - you make a two good points here - you seem to possess wisdom beyond your chronological years ... it took me longer in life to realize both. You are very correct in observing repeated behavior in another; which gives rise to the thought: "does this person really mean well?" And your point about pausing to take a moment to think if one's proposed action will go against their purpose - right on! Your wisdom will serve you well in life, my friend.

Sincere Regards, Michaela
____________________________________

"They will never make a perfect heart until
they make one that can't be broken."
The Wizard, "The Wizard of Oz"
_____________________________________

 

Thank you Michaela, you got a very pretty name. I guess I've seen this a lot in the people around me, so I catched up quickly :tongue:. I know there are moments when I've done the same and I think as we grow up we learn to be true to what we think and who we are, it does take time, but in the long run it's the most rewarding. There are just some people who never seem to get free of that cycle of mismatch between intentions/action, my brother is one of the greatest example of that. Thank you again, I had a really bad today and this cheers me up a little