Ask yourself "why does christianity make me so angry?"

no, I am heading towards "noone knows, you douchebag, you are just as bad as (if not worse than) the people you bitch about" discussion

noone knows, you douchebag, you are just as bad ass (if not worse than) the people you bitch about

 

i am not angered by chrisitanity anymore, i was once though and really my frustrations with christianity/christians can be summed up by one verse...john 3:16.

that verse is responsible for all the self-rightous christians who look down on non-christians. jesus is not the only way...

 

john 3:16....

most of the old testement is pretty ridiculous, with unnessesary commandments...leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

leviticus 20 is pretty violent and unloving/unforgiving

20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

is your god loving? or wrathfull? your scriptures seem confused about that

 

Yes, I suppose this falls down to personal morality. Take the time to figure out what is going wrong with your life, or the things you do that you don't want to do any longer and figure out a way to change them through a new way of living. This is really the keystone of all religion, and not just Christianity. This also brings to mind something I see as a problem among many Christians, though it doesn't anger me, it only saddens me to see it. Many Christians have a very definite idea of what constitutes 'sin', and look down on others who openly have no problem with or enjoy sinful things. This can and often does lead to hatred and violence against non-believers as well as fear, repression, anxiety, self-hate, etc. within a believer. Morality is subjective, though there are some things most people can agree are wrong, ultimately what causes pain and suffering for one person can cause pleasure and happiness for another.

Really? You simply ask and then receive? There seem to be different forms of prayer and I am always interested in hearing how people think such a thing works. As in what are the mechanics or metaphysics behind prayer. Do you believe God is answering your prayers? It seems obvious you think your experiences are beyond coincidence, but how do you know your not creating your own circumstances through your will to make it happen. That seems just as plausible to me as a God making it happen.

So do you believe that God is within you? I'm curious about the physical sensation and how you can be so sure it is unmanufactured. The mind is capable of creating many physical sensations and it seems to me it would be hard to ascertain wether the feeling was a product of your own imagination or not.

Sure, I wouldn't mind specifics, but only if you wish to share them. I don't want you to feel I'm badgering you with all the questions but I am curious. Proof is something I always seek when it comes to my own spirituality, even if it is merely subjective proof. To claim that you have proof is quite a statement to make, and I'm interested to hear more of what you consider your proof to be. What I am really interested in is what proof you claim that your particular interpretation of scripture is true, this seems to be much more tricky. I've seen many interpretations of the bible from people who take it literally to those who find teachings on everything from kabbalah and alchemy to astrology and magic hidden within the stories. How can you prove an interpretation to be true?

As for the original question, I have no anger with Christianity. I've found certain Christian writings to be very inspiring, but when it comes to the majority of Christians I have had dealings with in life....well, they can be quite dissapointing. Many seem to feel the world is out to get them and the devil is hiding around every corner. They grab their egos with one hand and wield the bible with the other while on a mission to convert the world and save them from their own ignorance. Of course this is just the small number of Christians I have met in my life, and most of them were southern baptists. Quite a paranoid and judgmental lot they seem to be. Many Christians I have seen post here on hipforums have been a different experience completely and I wouldn't mind seeing them post more often.

 

The OT showed men could not work their way to heaven. To enter heaven one much be perfect. There was rule after to rule and to be perfect one must abide those rules. Everyone failed and the Jewish nation was contiually failing.

But just as John 3:16 states: "For God so loved the world HE GAVE..."

In a nutshell, God sent himself in human form and died for evil that we do. As long as we embrace his name and STRIVE to live by his commands eternal life will follow. Ultimately, the OT was example of living without grace and to show that we ALL for short of the glory of God no matter how hard we try to be good. God ultimately wants us to rely on him.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding this. God has an eternal paradise set up for humans to go to when they die. To get in you have to be perfect, but God created humans as imperfect beings so they had no chance of getting into paradise. What? Why didn't God make humans perfect to begin with, or lower the standards of heaven so we could make it in.

I find this just as hard to follow. Why was it necessary for God to take on a human form and die for the evil humans commit? If God created humans and human nature, the world we live in and the nature of the world, and all the rules then what was the point to this whole ordeal. It seems to me that if there is only one God and it created everyting in existence then that includes evil. Why would God want us to rely on him? Shouldn't a God be beyond such human qualities as pride and vanity? You make it sound as though God is just puffing up his chest to show us how much better he is then us mere humans.

 

but what of those who do not follow jesus? or those who never heard of jesus before dying? or those who strive for perfection under another teacher, like the buddha, or their own life expirieince? why do chiritians believe the path to god is external...through another mans story? jesusdiedforu is your heart not pure enough for your god unless your mind believes in jesus?

 

God knew that none of us are perfect, and that is why God tells you in the Bible, "that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." So God sent His Son to earth to live a perfect life. And He made it this way so that anyone who follows Jesus will be covered by His blood sacrifice. In the Old Testament the Jews would sacrifice animals to cover their sins. When Jesus came He became the sacrifice for all the sins of the world. All who follow Him are covered by His blood. God created the human race and the angels of heaven with free will. All of us have a choice to do good or evil. Evil is not so much a creation, as it is a choice. And I might add, God is on your side, that's why He sent His Son. Jesus is the avenue of escape. If you have Christ in your life, death will have no power over you.

 

i guess the dividing line is that i do not believe human beings are inherantly evil. nor do i really believe in sin. so i dont feel the need for a savior.

 

What is your belief based on?

 

expirience....and logic... evil and good are simply perceptual judgments...in a realm of infinite possibilities all actions are equal, though every action has a reaction, and that we expirience as either pleasent or unpleasent. (though pleasent and unpleasent are perceptual judgments as well)


i cannot relate to a god that is within the realm of duality, because there is a conciousness that resonates beyond duality, and that is what liberation is about. jesus cant save me, as my choices are my own, only i can save ("set free") myself.

why would i pray to a god that would only accept half of me??? a god that says..."your kindness, your love, your compassion is holy, this i accept. but you anger, your sex, your fear, (ect) i do not accept. that is not holy."

i see that the whole of creation is holy. light and dark are not opposing at all, they are different degrees of the same phenomenon. like a wave. what we expirience is a blend of the two in various degrees. these polarities are the extreme ends of one pole. like hate and love....they are the same, not opposite, indifferent would be opposite.
anger and bliss are also one wave, and we expireince a blend of the two always. if one disapears so does the other. your god wants to eradicate my anger, but that would eradicate my bliss as well. im not against anger, though i believe it should be moved into with awarness, because when one is fully aware, one is master of that which is being expirienced. so i became master of my anger, not through repression, but awareness.


i say these things and talk of all actions being equal, and still i come to the world with love in my heart, i respect my brothers and sisters on the street, and i exercise compassion. why? because these things resonate a purer state of being within me. i dont think it would be a sin to spit on a passerby at random but i choose not to do it still. i do believe man is inherantly "good"

 

What are you going to save yourself from?

And what God tells you He will not accept your anger, your sex, and your fear?

Can simple human logic explain the mysteries of the universe?

And what if another human beings logic counters your logic, who is then right?

 

-a mind divided...dualistic perception. which creates human suffering. illusion.

i to am trying to get to heaven. an individual gets to heaven not by submission, but by refining his "lenses". meaning its up to us to create heaven as a state of being. heaven is a level of understanding.

-the christian god...that is what sin is all about. certain actions thoughts and emotions are sins to your god.

-i dont attempt to explain the universe, just the human condition. nothing can truly explain or create an understanding of the mysterious universe...so i would not even try.

-counter away. anything opposing what iv said is either blinded by fear, or a lack of understanding of what im saying. (the whole language thing seems inadequate at times) its not nessesarily about being right or wrong either....right and wrong is a matter of "vision" or level of understanding...perception

 

Well the Bible speaks of murder as sin, how do you look at murder?

 

Okay but do you believe that God knew none of us are perfect because he made us that way? How do you conceive of God? As omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent, any or all of the above? This may help me better grasp where you are coming from.

Why make the blood sacrafice necessary in the first place? It seems like an odd ritual to me.

 

i think the reactions that one mans killing resonates, depends entirely upon his intentions, his level of understanding, and the situation.

it also depends entirely on what level we look at this act of murder, on a cosmic level it means nothing, energy can only be recycled. the dead body nurishes the soil...the soil nurishes a new body... the body dies....ect. infinity. in time all involved will be healed and reach their godlike nature. so the murder means nothing.

on a personal level, murder will probably weigh heavily on the murderers mind, creating a karma that he'll be left to deal with. (karma meaning cause and effect) or maybe he felt justified, and his mind feels peace. then theres the karma imposed by the legal system as well. (prison) or maybe it was justified to the legal system as well.

and the dead mans family will be left to deal with their own karma. the suffering or indifference thats been created. and their perception/level of understanding of death will shape and define their expirience.

now this is how i see murder....i tend to think these kinds of intence emotional expiriences need to be dealt with, if not here, then in the here after.(i believe we have the same power/expirience as creators in death as in life. not much changes) because stagnant energy breeds pain and disease, it needs to be worked through and then let go of. for all involved. so maybe the murdered mans wife lives in a hell that she's created from holding onto the emotional expirience. when she lets it flow, lets it go, she's released herself from her, self imposed prison. hell.

same with the murder, his mind is sick, and when he heals his sickness he is free of his hell state.

i see heaven and hell as a state of mind...and they are often shaped by our karma (the effects of our actions) if you want to call negetive karma sin then lets call it sin, but ultimatly our state of mind is shaped by our level of understanding and how we CHOOSE to view the world and our expiriences

 

i have a few thought provoking statements....
jesus was murdered....your god sent jesus to be murdered. jesus said he would go and die on the cross but if it could be avoided he would like to avoid it. god sent him to the cross. your god condemns murder, yet he sent jesus to be murdered... is it your god or the bible that is wishy washy?

 

God is the only one who can give human life, God sent His Son to die on the cross knowing that humans would kill Him. Yet Old Testament prophecies that were written hundreds of years before Christ arrived stated this is what God would do to save mankind from sin. The prophecies were true. Gods Laws were made for man, and God knows how every person will live or die. He knows this, because He knows the future before the future happens. Our life here on earth is short, yet God offers us a life that is eternal. God offered Himself to be murdered in order to save you, because you see, Jesus is God.

 

I believe God has ultimate authority, yet chooses not to interfer with mans free will, and only does so when it brings about a specific task or desire for His purposes.

God prepared the world for the entrance of Christ by showing how the Blood sacrifice first acted as a covering for sin during the Jewish temple ceremonies.
God had to show the world first that works would not be the avenue of salvation, but it would require the death of God's Servant. It was fortold in the Old Testament that when this person would arrive, He would be put to death, yet His death would be the sacrifice that would cover the sins not only of the Jews, but the sins of the whole world. And Scripture then points out that anyone who would give their life to this man, would receive the gift of eternal life.

 

The story you're telling relies on two concepts: Original Sin and Predestination. The former obviously began as mythology and has endured for thousands of years as a product of inbred and intransigently-flawed reasoning; the latter is the flawed human speculation of spiritually-ignorant post-Reformation Protestant theologians.

Regarding the individual's free will, it's not 100% free if God knows how each individual will act...this implies that God purposely created different classes of individuals...some destined by their creator to accept him, some to reject, some to be righteous, some to be evil.