need info on converting bus to veggie oil

Currently Kalanu is on myspace:
www.myspace.com/kalanu

Frankly if you're pressed for time and/or money, and don't have access to a pretty good mechanic, it is probably best to go home-made bio-diesel instead of WVO. That way you don't have to convert your vehicle, and worry about problems, which if you read the forums seem like an automatic part of the WVO conversion problem. Yes Methanol and Lye are toxic and cost money (but you can do the process slowly and carefully outdoors or in well ventilated areas), but reducing your fuel costs to less than a dollar a gallon is a good start, and homemade biodiesel systems are a lot easier to assemble than all the little intricate auto and plumbing supplies which take time and money to assemble. You can still go WVO in the long-term, almost everyone says it is a slow learning process, and you make mistakes along the way.

 

I hope that you reall consider what you are about to do before you do it. First, you will lose a lot of power doing this. second not counting the cost to convert you are going to find that you have increased the cost of your fuel ! Don't listen to all the junk you hear , just another way to get the consumer to spend more $$$ .- the Soutnernhermit and the cool little dog

 

TRUCKS! on spike tv had a segment on how to do this. there is a way to mix gas and veggie oil to run a gas engine, and there is a system you can buy to do it for you. i suggest checking out spike tv's website and see if you can get a copy or download.

 

i think people are missing the spirit of this conversion. although saving money is nice, i think waht eagle is trying to do is make himself nearly independent of the petro-chemical industry, and if done smartly, it will save money in the short term and in the longterm. it is possible. i am also of the opinion that a homemade conversion is much better and more efficient than a ready made, one-size fits most, kit.
eagle is planning on one day pumping used cooking grease out of resteraunts and into his bus, and driving away. it is very possible to do this. he also plans on one day living on the road doing this, which is possible, but there are extra hurdles he would encounter.
filtering your oil is not a real problem eagle, but removing the glycerine is. if you have any of that in your fuel system, once the temperature drops, and it will, you are going to run into serious problems. mixing your own biodielsel is very simple and cheap, it used to cost us a total of 63 cents a gallon, but if you are going to be doing this while you live in the bus, you need to identify what your obstacles are going to be, and how to work around them. because you can get arrested for stealing used grease, and you can blow up or be arested driving around with methanol.

 

Wow, first time I come on here in like over a year and I find a thread with people talking about me. Ok, here's the deal, SoaringEagle. Head on over to http://biodiesel.infopop.cc . That's the forum site where everyone who knows anything about biodiesel and svo hang out and debate every fine point of every step in the process. More info there than you will ever be able to read.
Here are the pros and cons as I see it betweem SVO and biodiesel. My ex partner and I converted a mercedes to SVO, and we built biodiesel processors for a living. But we were in one place. Our dream was to take the RV and hit the road on veggie, and believe me, if you don't want a new hobbie, don't get into homebrew biodiesel. It takes time and at the very worst you could go blind and die huffingthat methanol. Also, you think cops give you the eyeball now, all dreaded out and driving a school bus, just try buying large quantities of lye, which is also an ingredient in crystal meth. One day I came out of a drug store and three cop cars were waiting for us, seperated me and my partner and demanded to know why we had just bought two cases of Red Devil Lye. We told them because the 100% lye product was being phased out and we wanted to snap up what we could while it was still useful. Luckily I had a processor and some of our mailorder kits in the back of the truck to show them. 'There are more people making meth in this town than biodiesel' they told me to justify their little sting operation. Anyway, here's the deal with SVO. You can put a kit together yourself for maybe $700 these days, but you will need to salvage a lot of the parts. You could fashion yourself a pump and go system, but you will need two more tanks in the bus (for a total of three) One is a heated dirty tank, the other is your filtered, ready to go tank. In between are three cartridge filters. This system will run you over $1500 if you want to do it right.
You don't NEED to do all that (it just simplifies things). For filtering the oil, all you need is a propane burner, a big old cookpot, and some .5 micron sock filters from McMaster Carr. Blue jeans work well too. The only problem you face is water. I always settled my oil for two weeks before filtering and using it, so that water would settle on the bottom. If you are on the road, this becomes harder. Two weeks is a long time. You have to make sure then that the oil you get NEVER has water in it. You can run oil with water, but you run the risk that the water may heat, form a steam bubble, and that steam bubble bursts and scars your injectors. Has happened, but doesn't always. Not worth the rest in many people's opinions. Another quick way of getting water out is bringing it up to temp. and leaving it there for twelve hours, but that takes a lot of energy. You can tell if there is water in your oil if you put a thin layer of oil in a pot and bring it up to boiling temperature (of water, not oil). the amount of crackliing and popping you see and hear will tell you how much water you have in the oil. You have to practice with wet and dry oil to get a feel for this method.
So it can be done in a mobile way, all styled out for $1500 or more, or on the cheap for around $750. Check out those forums. Oh, and another thing. there are as many ways of converting an engine as there are people doing it. It doesn't take a mechanic to do it. I did it and all I knew how to do at that point was change me oil. You just need to do a lot of reading on those forums, figure out what works best for you, and the rest is easy. I am back in canada now, but if you can get up to B.C. my offer of free help still stands at any time.
Kalanu

 

And building a biodiesel processor is cheap, for sure. If you only have $500 and you want to get started, then by all means. I just don't like doing it anymore. So that's my bias. Take it as it is. And when you're on the road, just where do you get crystal meth ingredients anyway?

Oh, and that feature on Trucks was about a dangerous and overpriced plastic piece of crap called the FuelMeister. Oh, man, people pay $3000 for a system that is completely inferior to something you can make yourself for under $500. Makee me shake my head lots.

 

I still think that's bizzare that I decided out of the blue to visit this site today. Perhaps I knew Peaceful had mentioned my name.

 

That is cool when things like that happen. keep spreading the word.

 

Just about sums up the spirit of the USA dont it
"SHEE IT Bwoy - if that thang goinna cost more dollars screw the environ ment bwoy its just some dang commie plot to make us retards think and spend - we dont want a clean environment we want cheap chemicals all over our food and givin us cancer and asthma"

hell - telling americans that the economy dont mean shit if aint got a clean environment in which to live is like telling neanderthals theyd better wise up
- if we kill the planet you havent got an economy "

better spend some cash and go a bit slower and pump less deadly chemicals into the atmosphere eh - otherwise there aint gonna be any dollars for you to save

convert everything to bio fuels etc

 

sentient, you've got a point, but I can be a literalistic nitpicker sometimes, and we need not convert everything to biofuels. Oh lordy, what a disaster that would be. Park your fucking car and walk or bike your fat ass is the answer here. turning food to fuel to run some yuppie VW Jetta? Whatever. Like I told Soaring Eagle today, some folks need biofuels, like travelling Rainbows. Yeah I'm discriminating here, but so what. It's my culture. We need to travel. If we all use biofuels we run out of waste veggie oil in a day. You know we've already started to starve out people in third world countries because we've pushed the cost of soy and canola and corn up so much? And farmers in North America are growing so much soy for biodiesel already that farmers in South America are clearing rainforest to grow soy for the cattle feed that we're no longer growing? So let's not get overzealous with our love of biofuels. It works great for broke hippies like us, but people with money and power need to invest in other solutions and take a good look at the every consequence of there actions because there are hidden costs in everything.

 

Now they get ya in Illinois just for owning & using a veggie-mobile.... This is sad.


Tradin' Bill




Updated: Thursday, March 1, 2007 8:24 AM CST State makes big fuss over local couple's vegetable oil car fuel By HUEY FREEMAN - H&R Staff WriterDECATUR - David and Eileen Wetzel don't get going in the morning quite as early as they used to.

So David Wetzel, 79, was surprised to hear a knock on the door at their eastside home while he was still getting dressed.

Two men in suits were standing on his porch.

"They showed me their badges and said they were from the Illinois Department of Revenue," Wetzel said. "I said, 'Come in.' Maybe I shouldn't have."

Gary May introduced himself as a special agent. The other man, John Egan, was introduced as his colleague. May gave the Wetzels his card, stating that he is the senior agent in the bureau of criminal investigations.

"I was afraid," Eileen Wetzel said. "I came out of the bathroom. I thought: Good God, we paid our taxes. The check didn't bounce."

The agents informed the Wetzels that they were interested in their car, a 1986 Volkswagen Golf, that David Wetzel converted to run primarily from vegetable oil but also partly on diesel.

Wetzel uses recycled vegetable oil, which he picks up weekly from an organization that uses it for frying food at its dining facility.

"They told me I am required to have a license and am obligated to pay a motor fuel tax," David Wetzel recalled. "Mr. May also told me the tax would be retroactive."

Since the initial visit by the agents on Jan. 4, the Wetzels have been involved in a struggle with the Illinois Department of Revenue. The couple, who live on a fixed budget, have been asked to post a $2,500 bond and threatened with felony charges.

State legislators have rallied to help the Wetzels.

State Sen. Frank Watson, R-Greenville, introduced Senate Bill 267, which would curtail government interference regarding alternative fuels, such as vegetable oil. A public hearing on the bill will be at 1 p.m. today in Room 400 of the state Capitol.

"I would agree that the bond is not acceptable, $2,500 bond," Watson said, adding that David Wetzel should be commended for his innovative efforts. "(His car) gets 46 miles per gallon running on vegetable oil. We all should be thinking about doing without gasoline if we're trying to end foreign dependency.

"I think it's inappropriate of state dollars to send two people to Mr. Wetzel's home to do this. They could have done with a more friendly approach. It could have been done on the phone. To use an intimidation factor on this - who is he harming? Two revenue agents. You'd think there's a better use of their time," Watson said.

The Wetzels, who plan to speak at a Senate hearing in Springfield today, recalled how their struggle with the revenue department unfolded.

According to the Wetzels, May told them during his Jan. 4 visit that they would have to pay taxes at either the gasoline rate of 19½ cents per gallon or the diesel rate of 21½ cents per gallon.

A retired research chemist and food plant manager, Wetzel produced records showing he has used 1,134.6 gallons of vegetable oil from 2002 to 2006. At the higher rate, the tax bill would come to $244.24.

"That averages out to $4.07 a month," Wetzel noted, adding he is willing to pay that bill.

But the Wetzels would discover that the state had more complicated and costly requirements for them to continue to use their "veggie mobile."

David Wetzel was told to contact a revenue official and apply for a license as a "special fuel supplier" and "receiver." After completing a complicated application form designed for businesses, David Wetzel was sent a letter directing him to send in a $2,500 bond.

Eileen Wetzel, a former teaching assistant, calculated that the bond, designed to ensure that their "business" pays its taxes, would cover the next 51 years at their present usage rate.

A couple of weeks later, David Wetzel received another letter from the revenue department, stating that he "must immediately stop operating as a special fuel supplier and receiver until you receive special fuel supplier and receiver licenses."

This threatening letter stated that acting as a supplier and receiver without a license is a Class 3 felony. This class of felonies carries a penalty of up to five years in prison.

On the department of revenue's Web site, David Wetzel discovered that the definition of special fuel supplier includes someone who operates a plant with an "active bulk storage capacity of not less than 30,000 gallons." Wetzel also did not fit the definition of a receiver, described as a person who produces, distributes or transports fuel into the state. So Wetzel withdrew his application to become a supplier and receiver.

Mike Klemens, spokesman for the department of revenue, explained that Wetzel has to register as a supplier because the law states that is the only way he can pay motor fuel tax.

But what if he is not, in fact, a supplier? Then would he instead be exempt from paying the tax?

"We are in the process of creating a way to simplify the registration process and self-assess the tax," Klemens said, adding that a rule change may be in place by spring.

David Wetzel wonders why hybrid cars, which rely on electricity and gasoline, are not taxed for the portion of travel when they are running on electrical power. He said he wants to be treated equally by the law.

David Wetzel, who has been exhibiting his car at energy fairs and universities, views state policies as contradicting stated government aims.

"You hear the president saying we need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil," Wetzel said. "You hear the governor saying that."

State Rep. Bob Flider, D-Mount Zion, also plans to support legislation favoring alternative fuels.

"I'm disappointed that the Illinois Department of Revenue would go after Mr. Wetzel," Flider said. "I don't think it is a situation that merits him being licensed and paying fees.

"The people at the department of revenue apparently feel they need to regulate him in some way. We want to make sure that he is as free as he can be to use vegetable oil. He's an example of ingenuity. Instead of being whacked on the head, he should be encouraged."

Huey Freeman can be reached at hfreeman@herald-review.com


Link is:

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/03/07/state-makes-big-fuss-over-local-couples-vegetable-oil-car-fuel/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herald-review.com%2Farticles%2F2007%2F03%2F01%2Fnews%2Flocal_news%2F1021491.txt&frame=true