I'm confused ((psychedelics))

yes, with the iskcon temple i've been going to a lot for about three months.

i pretty much mean i don't plan on taking initiation or moving into the ashram anymore, because there are a lot of good things about it that i want to keep.

 

It's not something to rush into - I mean joining iskcon.

I hope you won't mind my asking this, but have you ever looked into any other spiritual paths than Krishna Consciousness, or read the works of any other Indian gurus?

Several people on this forum have begun with Prabhupada's books, and expanded their horizons, even come perhaps to see things in a new light as a result of looking at other teachers.

It's a shame Spook13 is no longer around, as I'm sure he might be able to offer some words of wisdom here.

 

Sorry i didnt address your points, i think your doing fine. i mean its true, God reciprocates with everyone.
why would we want to alter our consciousness and try to better ourselves through study, and philosophy, and religion, if we are perfect?

 

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yes, your question, the words of the gita go deeper than body and mind. if you are not your body than what are you?

 

this is cute. the way is different for diff people, fine, but the way towards what?
what are we trying to reach or achieve? can we define a goal or a reason for trying to expand our concsiousness?

 

Why would you not wish to expand your consciousness is the more pertinent question. Perhaps some people prefer living in the dark, in a state of robotic and repetitive failure and falsehood- like we have now.
Or living under the brainwashing of this or that cult. That is one reason people need to expand their consciousness - in order to be able to evolve past the stage of the old traditional religions with their failures, parochialism, anti-science and anti-life philosophies.
Also, it is the purpose of the Universe - She desires it. It is why we evolved, and why we continue to evolve.

What are we aiming for? Happiness, freedom, peace, love. Knowledge, wisdom, understanding, ecstacy - things like that hopefully.
A decent life for everyone on this planet - that would be a reasonable aim in the immediate future.

 

the natural assumption of the devotees when i started showing up every day, learning to play mrdanga and harmonium, joining them for trips, doing service, etc, that i would eventually move in and take initiation and everything. so i kind of have to backtrack. i like the atmosphere of being surrounded by people who are god conscious all the time, but, you know. i'm not going to jump full-force into it, it's too exclusive...

i've been taoist since... i think i was about ten. i barely ever read books that aren't about spirituality, actually, and i read a lot. so yeah, i know a little. i could learn a lot more.

 

i like the story... i can't remember who it was, but the kid who was told to offer his food to krishna before eating. he didn't know how, but he wanted to. so he put the food in front of an alter, and waited. nothing happened. so he was saying, "take it! take it! why aren't you accepting my offering?" and krishna saw his love and physically took half of the food. his father came back and asked him where the food went, and when the boy told him, he was amazed. i didn't tell the story well but you probably know it better than me . so god reciprocates to any efforts we make, and i feel like i am denying some part of god through calling any of his creation bad. it's something i can't get over.

i mean that we're perfect in the way a plant or a baby or a river is perfect. it might not be able to lift goverdhan hill, there are billions of things that it can't do and doesn't know, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. i don't think anyone should feel bad for being who they are; we should just try to be whoever that is better and better all the time.

 

Yes, it's true, krishna consciousness is very exclusive. devotees are just not interested in any relative perfection or pretend utopia. just God. just Krishna.
"The word ananya-visaya means ananya-bhakti, undeviating devotional service. We must simply be attached to Krsna twenty-four hours a day without deviation. In this way our renunciation can be perfect. If we think we can be attached to Krsna and material things at the same time, we are mistaken. We cannot ignite a fire and at the same time pour water on it. If we do, the fire will not act."
>>> Ref. VedaBase => TQK 25: Unalloyed Devotion

 

will you stop pretending you krishna guys are so right with god and all that... you ran a school that prapad told the parents to send all the kids to and the kids were beaten and sodomized by the teacher...

 

This is a very nice story and you did a great job of telling it. however the sentiments of the little boy were not just "any effort"
sometimes when we serve krishna we do it for our pleasure and sometimes we do it for his pleasure.
really service means doing it for his pleasure. Krishna is not just an idea, but he also has preferences. some things are more pleasurable for him than others.

:agree:

check it out, smiley kirtanarty:

 

i would also just like to add one more point to the whole discussion. That Srila Prabhupada never introduced anything new. He gave the same process that has elevated people for thousands of years. going back to my original point, everyone else always makes their own path and their own way towards their own idea of utopia, but purity means to stick like glue to original vedic teachings.
There is alot about how intoxication is not accepted by spiritualists in Srimad Bhagavatam first canto chapter 17

 

i think every religion, even the totally made up ones, are all talking about the same exact god. and the "real" god is a combination of all of them, and an infinite number of qualities that we can't even speculate on. i know that EVERYTHING is krishna's energy. including the act of eating meat, gambling, drinking, having sex. the four no-no's. the problem is that they can become obsessions and make a person forget that truth. it's easier to cut them out than to regulate in a way that doesn't cause anyone harm. but i sincerely feel that it personally comes down to rational judgment. some devotees have told me not to waste my time on certain people because "they're demons". and it's an offense to preach to the faithless, and an offense to associate with athiests/non-devotees. i think that's ridiculous. what about lord chaitanya and lord nityananda's experience with jagai and madhai? everyone is a devotee, and every act is an act of devotion. the only difference between an athiest and a swami is the swami is aware of the cause and purpose of his actions, and acts fully consciously.

you can't not be attatched to krishna, because krishna is inside every atom. you can only not know you're attatched.

a devotee at my temple, who's been in the movement for more than 30 years, said once that it's possible to be krishna conscious even when you're drinking a glass of wine. as long as you understand that the color and taste and texture, all of it is krishna's energies, all of it belongs to krishna, that's krishna consciousness.

 

But you see that is merely a play for krishna, what he really wants is for us to love him. Like a little child, we go to him with our trivial pursuits to please the Lord who is ever Self Satisfied, but we also realize that love is more important.

 

Psychedelics are not intoxicants, if used correctly. I find that people always try to pigeon hole them with alcohol and such, to demonise them, but they have no relation to alcohol, either in effects or chemically. Some psychedelics substances, such a the Amazonia brew, Ayahuasca, contains only chemicals that occur naturally in the human brain, so the user is not adding anything foriegn, just increasing the levels of something that is already there.

 

True enough. And actually, some major Indian writers such as Patanjali have had a more enlightened attitude towards such substances.
These HK people are narrow puritan fanatics of the worst type - or at least that's how they represent themselves - the truth is a little more dark than that though.

 

The original vedic teachings? How come then there is no mention of Krishna in the Rig Veda?
Truth is that SP probably didn't understand the upanishads - let alone the veda.
Iskcon say their literature such as the Bhagavata Purana is 6,000 years old - in actuality is is all of medieval date.

And as we know, many of SP's texts have been altered, edited and re-written since his death.

 

Glad you mentioned this chief. I don't imagine they tell potential new recruits about all that. Or the rest of the scandals.
So really it'a all a big con. Isk-con is misrepresenting itself to the young and impressionable.

Here is a link to some info about SP's 11 successor gurus and their activities. I met one of them, Bhagavan Gurudev, who struck me as a facist moron.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/gbc/black/bogus4.htm

 

bottoms up...

also, what are they in kindergarten fairyland calling someone a demon and don't talk to them?